C-Card roulette

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The issue is not whether anyone would try to render aid, nor whether they would be protected by a Good Samaritan law.

The issue is the possibility of being sued for something you had nothing to do with. For example, you were on a boat, just for a fun dive, with no connection to the person sitting next to you. They are not your buddy. You are not diving with them. But, they jump in with their gas turned off and drown. Do you get sued simply because you're a Pro who showed their card to get on the boat? Some lawyer asserts that, as a pro, you should have noticed that they were doing something stupid.

Nothing to do with making a choice about rendering aid.

And that was just a made-up example to illustrate the point of being sued for nothing to do with you and nothing to do with a decision about rendering aid.

Will you be listed in the lawsuit? Probably.
Will you be dropped from the list of defendants quickly? Probably.
Is it still a huge pain in the azz? Definitely.
 
I agree with what you guys are saying and see your points of view on getting involved in an incident or not, and just being on the same boat (or shore) as a pro when something happens. But from all I have read over years on SB, it doesn't matter whether you show a pro or Rescue card or not--and this is to the point regarding the thread title. The lawyers have no trouble looking up everyone's cert. level.
 
In the end... If someone gets into trouble and I am aware of this, I will try to help to the best of my abilities to a point. If I feel that my own life is endangered I will have to make a decision as to whether their life is more important than my own. At 70 years of age it might very well be that it is worth the attempt for a much younger person with a whole lot of life yet to live.

On the other hand, if someone gets into trouble and I am not even aware of this, then I can't see where the odds of a successful lawsuit against me would have much chance of success.
 
In the end... If someone gets into trouble and I am aware of this, I will try to help to the best of my abilities to a point. If I feel that my own life is endangered I will have to make a decision as to whether their life is more important than my own. At 70 years of age it might very well be that it is worth the attempt for a much younger person with a whole lot of life yet to live.

On the other hand, if someone gets into trouble and I am not even aware of this, then I can't see where the odds of a successful lawsuit against me would have much chance of success.

Hi Bert,

"Successful Lawsuit" Trust me, a unsuccessful lawsuit against you is bad enough. Been there, done that. No mas.

www.johnchatterton.com/send-lawyers-guns-money

I do not have a DM cert nor a rescue cert. I do not dive hoping to save people from themselves. I will help and render aid as best I can. In some cases I will risk my life.

I will not do a one weekend cert course that brands me (in a court of law) in the same league as an AF PJ or CG rescue swimmer? No thanks.

markm
 
I know that this topic has drifted, but I only show the card required to do the dive (usually Nitrox). If I am alone, I show my solo card and if the op is being jerky about depth, I might show my trimix rebreather card. I never show a professional card unless I am being paid to work. I have found that this eliminates the "will you work for free on this dive that you are paying to do?" scenario.

YMMV,

Jackie
 
Hi Bert,

"Successful Lawsuit" Trust me, a unsuccessful lawsuit against you is bad enough. Been there, done that. No mas.

www.johnchatterton.com/send-lawyers-guns-money

I do not have a DM cert nor a rescue cert. I do not dive hoping to save people from themselves. I will help and render aid as best I can. In some cases I will risk my life.

I will not do a one weekend cert course that brands me (in a court of law) in the same league as an AF PJ or CG rescue swimmer? No thanks.

markm
You clearly lack an understanding of the rescue cert and the training a good instructor provides in that course. If a rescue cert puts you in the same class as a CG rescue swimmer in a court of law, you have a lawyer, a judge, and a jury that are too stupid for the presence or lack of the cert to make a difference in your outcome anyway. Any competent judge would fix that on appeal.
 
I always show my rescue diver card - never my DM card. If I am on vacation all they need to know is that I am certified.

For a while I tried showing tec cards, but that was more trouble than it was worth.
 
You clearly lack an understanding of the rescue cert and the training a good instructor provides in that course. If a rescue cert puts you in the same class as a CG rescue swimmer in a court of law, you have a lawyer, a judge, and a jury that are too stupid for the presence or lack of the cert to make a difference in your outcome anyway. Any competent judge would fix that on appeal.

Hi gcarter,

No, I completely understand the rescue cert.

You clearly have never been subpoenaed to perform an interrogatory, a deposition, nor testify in court under cross examination. You clearly have never filed an appeal. Under cross, the plaintiff's attorney would compare you (PADI Certified Rescue Diver and PADI certified Master Scuba diver and PADI certified Master Instructor) to an AF PJ, Navy Seal, a commercial diver, or an Army master diver.

Your one-weekend cert is a good cert to have for an amateur, avocational, and weekend diver. However, It should not be confused with a real rescue diver certification.

I admit that I am an amateur diver. As are many of the DMs and Instructors that I have dived with. Some are incredible divers, and others? For most it is a part time job that covers expenses for their chosen avocation.

I suggest you read the link that I posted in my last post.

Do you know of John Chatterton and Ritchie Kohler?

Thanks,
markm
 
Hi gcarter,

No, I completely understand the rescue cert.

You clearly have never been subpoenaed to perform an interrogatory, a deposition, nor testify in court under cross examination. You clearly have never filed an appeal. Under cross, the plaintiff's attorney would compare you (PADI Certified Rescue Diver and PADI certified Master Scuba diver and PADI certified Master Instructor) to an AF PJ, Navy Seal, a commercial diver, or an Army master diver.

Your one-weekend cert is a good cert to have for an amateur, avocational, and weekend diver. However, It should not be confused with a real rescue diver certification.

I admit that I am an amateur diver. As are many of the DMs and Instructors that I have dived with. Some are incredible divers, and others? For most it is a part time job that covers expenses for their chosen avocation.

I suggest you read the link that I posted in my last post.

Do you know of John Chatterton and Ritchie Kohler?

Thanks,
markm
I did read it. The message is that anyone can sue anyone for anything at any time. It doesn't mean or say they will be successful.

I have been subpoenaed and testified in court, including cross examination, as a witness in a criminal trial as well as in a civil trial. I have been required to fulfill subpoenas for document production. I regularly interact with lawyers for both contracts and lawsuits as part of my work. Not sure why this is relevant.

Somehow you think that a disagreement with a statement you made means that I "clearly" have no idea what I am talking about and should just defer to your "clearly" superior knowledge and experience.

Appeal to Authority

I know what the rescue cert is. And I know that it is not even close to being comparable to a CG rescue diver or any of the others you listed. A competent court will recognize that, and so there is no comparability as to duty of care. A plaintiff's attorney can make all the comparisons s/he wants; as I said, if you have a competent attorney, jury, and judge the differences will be made obvious. Just because the plaintiff's attorney alleges something does not make it so.

So for you to say "I will not do a one weekend cert course that brands me (in a court of law) in the same league as an AF PJ or CG rescue swimmer? No thanks." is to put it mildly, questionable. I repeat, a competent court will acknowledge that difference.
 
To jump back a little, one instructor once said that if on vacation and asked to work during a fun dive, he (or she) simply says "sure if you pay me my usual fee and eliminate my charge for this charter". I guess by not showing a pro card one simply eliminates that situation arising. I wonder if any dive op ever actually went along with the instructor's idea and did in fact pay him, etc.?
 

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