C-Card roulette

[Todd Dicker]

I'm amused by many of the assumptions in this thread based on...oh I don't really know. Television shows? Popular culture? Old comic books? It reminds me of the "laws of the road" rookies try to tell me exist with regard to a paramedic or EMT stopping to help someone on the side of the road in an accident. "Oh, don't get paramedic license plates, if you drive by an accident and don't stop you can get sued," or "when they announce on a plane they need someone with medical experience to help with an emergency, keep your mouth shut or the lawyers will get you."

Most jurisdictions recognize a "Good Samaritan" act performed by a professional that didn't have the "duty to act" but assisted in a reasonable manner. Most jurisdictions also recognize when a professional doesn't have a duty to act and chose not to do so for whatever reason. And yes, I can sue you for wearing ugly shoes if I want...that's the way we guarantee everyone has access to remedy their torts (heh heh, that's what SHE said).

But, to go around in fear of being sued and living life by the rules of "watch out, the lawyers will see" seems to me to be a rather paranoid way of going through life...especially when I know damn well that if I see someone seriously hurt, my muscle memory and self-respect will direct me to act, and damn the lawyers. Probably the same will be true as a diver if I can ever figure out which end of the hose goes in my mouth.

Of course, I do carry a $3 million umbrella policy, so F^&k em anyways.

 

[MargaritaMike]

seems to me to be a rather paranoid way of going through life

As I state in my signature: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they are NOT out to get you.

if I see someone seriously hurt, my muscle memory and self-respect will direct me to act

I agree. I have done exactly that AND will continue to do so, however I CHOOSE not to stand in the front of the "I volunteer" line.

Most jurisdictions also recognize when a professional doesn't have a duty to act and chose not to do so for whatever reason

The jurisdiction may recognize this situation, but juries have been very blind in the past and have given credence to the phrase "Common sense is uncommon" by finding for plaintiffs in the most groundless, baseless, and frivolous of lawsuits.
- M²

 

[dmaziuk]

As I state in my signature: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they are NOT out to get you.

The issue's not whether you're paranoid, the issue is whether you're paranoid enough. (Strange Days - Movie Quotes - Rotten Tomatoes)

 

[admikar]

It reminds me of the "laws of the road" rookies try to tell me exist with regard to a paramedic or EMT stopping to help someone on the side of the road in an accident. "Oh, don't get paramedic license plates, if you drive by an accident and don't stop you can get sued," or "when they announce on a plane they need someone with medical experience to help with an emergency, keep your mouth shut or the lawyers will get you."

In my country, I'm obliged by law to help in traffic accident. As part of acquiring drovers licence, we have to go through first aid course (as well as any diving course I take, I think I did it 6 or 7 times so far). Of course I am not a professional, but in USA I would be scared to try and get someone out of a burning vehicle and get sued because I hurt that person in some way (for example, spinal injuries). In my country, I don't think anyone would even think about suing me for pulling them out of a burning vehicle and leaving them paralyzed in the process. Of course, I am not advocating going in like crazy and start tearing things apart, but you people are sue crazy.
The same goes for dive accidents.

 

[gcarter]

I see people write things like this quite often; for myself, when I am faced with a choice of whether or not to help someone, my thoughts have generally involved the risk and safety factors when making my decision whether or not to wade in i.e. don't make yourself a victim in the process. I do not think about lawyers and lawsuits.

 

[CrumhornDiver]

for myself, when I am faced with a choice of whether or not to help someone, my thoughts have generally involved the risk and safety factors when making my decision whether or not to wade in i.e. don't make yourself a victim in the process.

I agree. Anyone whose first thought is not about situational awareness and their own safety probably should not get involved. Such a person is probably more likely to create additional victims. Most, if not all, of my emergency training has begun with this lesson.

 

[admikar]

I see people write things like this quite often; for myself, when I am faced with a choice of whether or not to help someone, my thoughts have generally involved the risk and safety factors when making my decision whether or not to wade in i.e. don't make yourself a victim in the process. I do not think about lawyers and lawsuits.

Of course, I'm thinking about lawyers in my chair. In real situation, I'm mostly driven by fight or flee instinct, so I would probably do what I don't advocate in my previous post,aka, tear everything apart to get victim out.

 

[rick00001967]

in canada though we are protected. as long as you try to do whatever is reasonable and within the scope of what you have been trained to do, you cannot be sued. not sure about the u.s. may be different depending on what state a person is in
so if i have basic first aid and i see an accident, i can help as best i can using the training i received and not worry about it. but if for example a person was choking and i grab a knife and start cutting open their throat thinking i can do a tracheotomy.......good luck.
the question when it comes to being a pro diver is......what duty do you have to another diver ? it is more obvious in a training scenario that you have a very high standard to meet when it comes to the care of your student. but where do you draw the line when you are just another diver on a boat that happens to have a pro level card and the **** hits the fan ?
i think most of us (if not all) would instinctively jump in to lend a hand. but if we didn't, or if we did and it had a bad outcome, what would be the consequences ? depends i guess on the circumstances and the country you are in.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've been away and haven't read most posts, so will just say what I do. It is a topic that has been often discussed, especially on the pro forums. I show my DM card and that's that. Have never been asked to do any kind of helping out--ei. with a new diver, etc. I was asked "bring up the rear" on a guided "in line" dive with the DM leading, but I was a lowly MSD then.....No point in showing a lesser card since any good lawyer will quickly find out who's certified with what should a lawsuit occur. A couple of times I was allowed to go solo because of circumstances, though I don't like doing that very deep.

 

[stuartv]

The issue is not whether anyone would try to render aid, nor whether they would be protected by a Good Samaritan law.

The issue is the possibility of being sued for something you had nothing to do with. For example, you were on a boat, just for a fun dive, with no connection to the person sitting next to you. They are not your buddy. You are not diving with them. But, they jump in with their gas turned off and drown. Do you get sued simply because you're a Pro who showed their card to get on the boat? Some lawyer asserts that, as a pro, you should have noticed that they were doing something stupid.

Nothing to do with making a choice about rendering aid.

And that was just a made-up example to illustrate the point of being sued for nothing to do with you and nothing to do with a decision about rendering aid.