Buying gear online: good or evil?

[ScubaSteve]

I think the point is that every brick and mortar shop should become a "click and mortar" shop (just an option for them adapting to the envirnment and not the only choice) AND open their eyes, ears and mind to what customers want. My LDS refuses (absolutely refuses) to post any cost information or details of any sort on his website. If you ask him digitally (email or his web forum) he says "call me at the store". I still go to him to give him the opportunity because he gives me free air, but I lose no sleep over going elsewhere if it saves me enough money. A company that still makes the best darn buggywhips around will still go out of business. If they see the writing on the wall and adapt to the current market, they may survive. But the "hands on" dealing are still valuable. However if someone refuses to sell anything but Mares (*just picked a brand - sorry Mares), they are no good to me. I want choices and service that is tangible and worthwhile. That I will pay a small premium for. I will not lose my shirt just to help the LDS make his mortgage payment though. They need to do business differently to ensure their survival in today's ever chaging environment. My money is just as important to me as his is to him.

 

[tgsmith]

I disagree with "you have a choice, online is cheaper but you don't get the personality and help(whatever) like a dive shop."

The reason I disagree is most dive shops don't know two ****s about what the hell they're actually selling. Except for cave country, I've found 1 dive shop that I would actually trust their advice, The Scuba Connection in Hillsborough, NJ. I'd never go into a shop and buy something based on their advice unless it was that one. All over Virginia, NJ and some other places in the northeast, and the Key's, I've gotten nothing but people talking out of their ass on false claims. So yeah, I make my decision and buy it online for way cheaper. If a shop helps me out I'll buy it from them, but again, most, don't even stock quality equipment and usually only carry the "hot" marketing items.

 

[imasinker]

I disagree with "you have a choice, online is cheaper but you don't get the personality and help(whatever) like a dive shop."

The reason I disagree is most dive shops don't know two ****s about what the hell they're actually selling. Except for cave country, I've found 1 dive shop that I would actually trust their advice, The Scuba Connection in Hillsborough, NJ. I'd never go into a shop and buy something based on their advice unless it was that one. All over Virginia, NJ and some other places in the northeast, and the Key's, I've gotten nothing but people talking out of their ass on false claims. So yeah, I make my decision and buy it online for way cheaper. If a shop helps me out I'll buy it from them, but again, most, don't even stock quality equipment and usually only carry the "hot" marketing items.

So the guy online at LP's call center knows more than a guy who ones a scuba shop?

thats like saying the person at that big fancy home building supply store always knows what the hell they are talking about to. Usually there is one other person around who does.

 

[Miller64]

If I were wealthy,I wouldn't mind paying $150 -$300 more locally,,case in point,,a nice UW camera..most are offering free shipping now,over $100.saved $200....on-line,,,it's the way of the world now,,,accept it.I can't see paying $30 plus tax for a console holder,add a few other small devices together,a name brand hood,,,$50..online,it's $19, and free shipping,get the holder for $8....I'm sorry,,soon to be on fixed income,,,times are rough for a lot of people and this is an expensive sport...savings is gas to go diving.I own harleys so I know how it is to pay more for a name,but I did search on line for best price for the bikes to.But.i will not do the online classes,I go to my LDS for those.I support my LDS as much as I can ,within limits.Then again,I can see the shop owners not liking on-line buying...bring the prices down a bit,sell more by volume than by higher prices,,,just my opinion

 

[PhilEllis]

This scuba industry "online v brick and mortar" marketing debate is one of the most interesting subjects I study. The scuba diving industry, like many very small niche industries, has a very difficult time with the issue. Clearly, the major manufacturers would prefer to hold on to the old concept of very localized specialty stores for scuba. After all, they have prospered with this system, and most of us are loathe to change a system in which we have prospered.

Unfortunately, it is not realistic to expect that every local scuba store can change their destiny with online sales. First, it is EXTREMELY expensive to operate an online store. The opportunity cost for inventory alone can easily exceed $1,000,000. Most local scuba stores are having a difficult time paying the December rent....where in the world would they get the resources to start a really competitive online store? It will not work to simply put your limited inventory on a cheap online store format. It might result in some very incremental sales increase, but without massive economic investment and the technical ability to market an online operation, most pull their online stores back in just a few months.

Even pretty large investment, excellent technical and internet marketing, and good customer service result in some rather rapid failures of online scuba stores. Without mentioning the name of the operation, there was a failure of a roughly $1,000,000 online scuba store talked about here on Scubaboard in the past several months. There have been failures of stores with pretty big online operations that had been in business for years.

The bottom line....without the ability to KNOW how to financially fund and run an online scuba business, failure is almost guaranteed. Online sales is a natural extension for every local scuba store, just as it is with almost every other type of store. It is not a guarantee for success.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[SkipperJohn]

OK, so we all seem to establish that we buy online unless our local guy can come to within an acceptable percentage of what the item in question is being generally sold for online. But suppose he can't come to your number and you buy it online. What then?
What if it's a regulator. Would you expect him to service it for you? Continue to fill your online bought tank? Still treat you like a friend?

 

[ScubaSteve]

........Would you expect him to service it for you? Continue to fill your online bought tank? Still treat you like a friend?

If I am paying him.....YES! But I am not looking for a friend. A friend wants me to succeed as well so if me breaking my account to pay his way is a requirement, then he is a shop owner and not a friend.

Let's be real here. No shop or internet "shop" has a monopoly on any aspect of scuba. If a shop gets pissy because they lost a sale and no longer want my money for other things, then I am better off in my opinion. I hand over money just like everyone else. If I need to pay for my air and dive close to a dive shop so that it is convenient, then I will. I will do what it takes to keep me diving on my terms.

 

[PhilEllis]

OK, so we all seem to establish that we buy online unless our local guy can come to within an acceptable percentage of what the item in question is being generally sold for online. But suppose he can't come to your number and you buy it online. What then?
What if it's a regulator. Would you expect him to service it for you? Continue to fill your online bought tank? Still treat you like a friend?

Online sales operations are not some type of outer space operations.....most are also local scuba stores for somebody. Local scuba stores should do all of the things that are in their best BUSINESS interests, which include providing whatever level of customer service they think is necessary to sustain their business. If they think it is in their interest to service equipment purchases from somewhere else, then they should do that. If they think it is in their interests to provide that service for free, for a reduced charge, or for full service price.....they should do that. If they want to fill all cylinders or only cylinders purchased from them, then they should do that.

As to treating you like a friend, that is more an issue of how they define their "friends". Personally, I treat everyone like a friend...because I like people in general and I love to talk. For others, if you aren't scratching their backs, it may be a little more difficult.

In the end, commerce is commerce, business is business, marriage is marriage, and friends are friends. Each person allows the distinctions to cross, depending totally on their personality and disposition.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

 

[redacted]

OK, so we all seem to establish that we buy online unless our local guy can come to within an acceptable percentage of what the item in question is being generally sold for online. But suppose he can't come to your number and you buy it online. What then?
What if it's a regulator. Would you expect him to service it for you? Continue to fill your online bought tank? Still treat you like a friend?

I don't patronize businesses to make friends. I go to business to purchase the goods and services they sell. Any store that refuses me service at their profit earns a very dissatisfied customer. And that can be contagious as it tends to spread. I'd rather spend $4K to set up my own fill station than suffer the kind of business operation you are suggesting.

BTW, I had a talk with the owner of the LDS I do business with locally. We discovered we buy our cars at the same dealership. That is, which ever one gives us the best deal.

Customers shopping around for the best deal is only part of the problem. It is what money conscious customers should be expected to do. The other part of the problem is mfgrs and distributors whose business practices and pricing structures are slowly draining the life out of uncompetitive LDSs; as well as the LDSs that can't or won't compete. The system will naturally seek a point of balance and the fittest will survive.

 

[imasinker]

I don't patronize businesses to make friends. I go to business to purchase the goods and services they sell. Any store that refuses me service at their profit earns a very dissatisfied customer. And that can be contagious as it tends to spread. I'd rather spend $4K to set up my own fill station than suffer the kind of business operation you are suggesting.

BTW, I had a talk with the owner of the LDS I do business with locally. We discovered we buy our cars at the same dealership. That is, which ever one gives us the best deal.

Customers shopping around for the best deal is only part of the problem. It is what money conscious customers should be expected to do. The other part of the problem is mfgrs and distributors whose business practices and pricing structures are slowly draining the life out of uncompetitive LDSs; as well as the LDSs that can't or won't compete. The system will naturally seek a point of balance and the fittest will survive.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier... If you have a online store buying 5000 regulators for say 200.00 each of course they can sell for less than the guy who has to buy 4 or 5 at 400.00 each hang em on his wall in the store and try and make a buck just can't compete. The bigger companies are buying a higher volume and getting better prices. Mfgrs dump off these products to online companies such as thoses previously listed who have the backers and investers unlike the small guy. If that continues who's to say what will happen to the mom and pop shops. Maybe we will just end up with the Walmart style dive shop!