Buying Dive Equipment in the Philippines

[The Hamburger]

NWD,

If only the Dive equipment distributors realized they are costing themselves a large portion of potential turnover by employing this strange form of marketing.


If (lets say) an instructor gets 20% (its usually more like 30%)and passes on 10% of this discount to his customers does the distributor realize that he has just lost 10% that could be used for marketing.


Also it is apparent that divers buy equipment that they see other divers using. Not what is recommended by some instructor they happen to be diving with.

Essentially dive retailers would be better off employing standard means of advertising and going for a direct sale and cutting out the middle man.

It would also solve the more and more frequent problem of people asking what is the instructors discount and then refusing to buy something unless they do get the instructors discount whether they are an instructor or OW. (something I recomend all divers do in future)

 

[cmdasia]

I am also 100% against giving DMs and INs a flat discount - it also makes them recommend gear to newbies on the basis of how much of a cut they are going to get rather then what is actaully the most suited to the newbie.

A lot more people would ignore their "instructors" recommendations if they realized they were putting money in their back pockets from the sale.

I have never met an instructor yet that has volunteered that they make a cut on the sale or recommendation. It stinks, it also sullies the Instructor/student relationship when the "student" eventually finds out that the instructor is putting even more in his/her back pocket than the tuition fees he/she has legitimately earned.

There should be one price for all and let the equipment speak for itself in resales rather than shoddy business practices.

 

[exnewwavedivers]

If (lets say) an instructor gets 20% (its usually more like 30%)and passes on 10% of this discount to his customers does the distributor realize that he has just lost 10% that could be used for marketing.

In most cases, a student would look up to a dive professional for advice on buying equipment. Most likely, distributors think of the alledged lost 10% as additional cost of advertising - although the term most of them used is "incentive".

A lot more people would ignore their "instructors" recommendations if they realized they were putting money in their back pockets from the sale.

Nothing wrong in making money off selling equipment and students and divers should realize this. The dive professional is in business to earn a living. Simply doing a course or diving with them doesn't mean you own them. What is not good is recommending an inferior product. When the buyer realizes this, they lose their respect for the professionals who recommended this product. Because of this, the professional making a recommendation should not let greed cloud their judgement.

Since most, if not all distributors gives incentives, then there should be no reason for the DM/instructor to prefer a particular brand based on the commission on sales.

I have never met an instructor yet that has volunteered that they make a cut on the sale or recommendation.

I know instructors in Manila, even here in Boracay, who cuts his/her commission.

 

[cmdasia]

So Robert - in the interest of openness, fairplay and honest business practices would you be willing to tell us what discounts a) you offer to INs and DMs on a range of equipment or b) what "incentives" you expect for buying equipment from a local supplier ??


Chris

P.S. nice website

 

[Swordfish]

newwavedivers once bubbled...
Swordfish

About prices for instructors and divemasters being cheaper, the reason for that is because the shops want to give incentives to the professionals, enticing them by offering lower prices in return for promoting their equipment. Nothing wrong with that.

There are many more open water divers than instructors/divemasters and dive shops would do better to "entice" them by lowering prices for this class. About promotion, I would prefer to buy equipment recommended by a disinterested diver who has ACTUALLY USED the gear over a DM/instructor who promotes it because he happens to get a commission from the sale.

As for price fixing, if you would check out the prices of several brands being sold in the Philippines in other countries, the price difference should be about constant. There is no such thing as price fixing on scuba equipment in the Philippines. [/B]

I don't understand how there can be no price fixing if, according to you, "the prices of several brands being sold in the Philippines in other countries, the price difference SHOULD BE ABOUT CONSTANT [all caps mine]."

I can assure you that scuba equipment distributors are virtually killing each other and from time to time, one or a few of them would go on sale - offering discounts normally up to 30%.

There is no protection for dealers when the distributors go on sale. When this happens, the prices you can buy is virtually the same as the prices they give to their dealers. [/B]

I decided to buy a dive computer from a local dealer in Makati City after the distributor gave me the same price (they told me that was already the SALE PRICE). The dealer told me their current price was based on the distributor's sale price, which led me to conclude that the dealer could lower his price based on the price of the distributor where he is getting the gear. There is simply no way for the distributor to offer a price lower than that of their dealers.

Prices vary from country to country. You have to understand that scuba equipment are imported, and as such, subject to tax and other charges such as shipping. The companies also have to pad up their profit margin as they import by the bulk but do not sell them fast enough to recover their investment. Also, countries which have high volume of sales would be cheaper because the distributors there get their stocks cheaper than the distributors here. [/B]

Precisely why I'm saying the prices of scuba gear here in the Philippines tend to be more expensive. But I'm not about to concede that these distributors and dealers are indeed paying the right taxes.

Finally, one more local practice that I find questionable is the fact that most dealers give you their prices in US dollars. You can pay in dollars but why should you if you're a local resident. So what the salesperson does is convert the dollars into pesos, DEPENDING ON THE CURRENT EXCHANGE RATE. This means that the customer has to pay for the gear at a higher exchange rate in pesos (well, with all the bombing reports recently and the peso sliding down against the dollar as a result, these dealers must be profiting more than what they should reasonably be getting) even if the dealer/distributor got the stock at a lower exchange rate.

 

[kitbuga]

check out ebay. there are some pretty good-looing things there. of course, buyer beware.

Check out

http://www.philtech.net/

They are the Philippines' distributor for Diverigte and Poseidon if you are interested in those brands. I bought my Odin and SS BP wing rig there. The prices are certainly way, way lower than Hong Kong and Singapore. But check out the US and EU prices if you can source from there. But if you're stuck in Manila canvass the prices on the web but make sure you factor in taxes and postage / freight and handling. Also make sure you have a list of all the items you're getting if you plan to buy thru the net. Too much fine print in some cases.

Happy shopping.

Kitbuga

 

[scuba734]

On the price or discount for Instructor, Dive master, dive shop and plain divers, there is also another factor in doing that calculation. It is TIME, if you spend a week at a dive shop, a salesperson can sell a complete set of gear to an instuctor in half an hour, but can spend days or weeks talking, explaining to divers before being able to sell a set. Dive shop, of course, volume and also marketing expenses, warehouse space and more important more sales channel.

As for divers would tend to listen more to friends than instrutor, that would apply only to instrutors that the students do not respect, which sadly tend to be foreign instructors. Some of us believe that foreign instructors ares more knowledgable but the students usually do not form the relationship of teacher/students after the course.

The instruction you gave to everybody to insist on taking the same discount as the instructor would probably get that person a very bad image in the Thai diving world. We all know the rule, and actually some divers would insist that the instrutor keeps the different, as a very minor present or respectful action towards the instructor

 

[cmdasia]

Sorry, I just do not buy this Thai vis a vis Foreigner view

 

[The Hamburger]

It looks as if there are 2 points of veiws being promoted here.

A qualified divers point of view (not student)

and

An instructors point of view

Both having a vested interest.

When retailers wake up and smell the coffee , there are of course many more qualified divers thatn students and instructors put together, then things may change.

734 ,

why should I pay something to someone who is not teaching me and has never taught me anything.

In most other industries it would be illegal for a teacher to sell things to pupils, too much of a conflict of interest , too much of a prospect for abuse.

 

[monster]

Quick responses --

On buying: while you can get good deals here in the Philippines, I agree it is best to buy the stuff you need serviced in the country/city where you stay, makes servicing easier and more cost-effective.

On commissions et al: I'm a dive professional myself and while I can see both points of view, here's my thing. I don't recommend equipment based on the commissions or discounts I get, I recommend based on my experience and objective and subjective evaluations, which I elaborate to my students or the divers I meet.

In fact, I don't mess with the commissions or discounts; I let the dive shop do their thing, and I tell the divers what they can get out there, quality-wise vis a vis what they are willing to spend. In the end, the diver makes the decision, but I like to give them as much information as I can so they can make an informed decision. What I'm after is that the diver gets good, reliable gear so they can enjoy their diving. It's the whole reason I became a pro in the first place, to get more people into diving.

Hey, Robert. How's life?