Building a Better BC

[dumpsterDiver]

I have a DSS plate and really like how the wing goes on and off in a few seconds without having to unthread the cam bands. I've flown with my gear once and I detached the wing and kind of rolled it up, then packed it in my carry-on, along with the plate, my wetsuit, regulator case, and mask. It all fit, no problem. The weight of it didn't bother me - and nobody else ever had to lift it.

I just got the DSS bolt-on weight plates and I'm thinking they'll let me dive in the Caribbean with no additional weight at all. That should be pretty darn sweet! And, again, I don't care if my carry-on has 14 pounds worth of plate and bolt-on weights in it.



This was exactly the idea I had when I started reading this thread! I have a 30 # wing, which (hopefully) will be good when I'm diving close to home in colder water. But, when I was diving off Coz last month, I definitely would have rather had the 17 # wing that DSS recommended to me.

I was thinking a simple zipper around the outside of the wing, like some suit cases have, that would let it expand an inch or two. When zipped down to the smaller size, there would be no loose material flapping around because it would be contained inside the wing. When unzipped, well, obviously, there would be no extra material flopping around.

And, worst case, if the zipper fails while diving, it just means you now have a wing with more lift than you need. I think I'm going to call Tobin and ask him about this.

Wow a zipper sounds like it might be the simple and obvious solution! You just fold in a portion of the wing on itself and zip around the perimeter, shrinking the wing proportions in a somewhat uniform amount.

If the zipper could be placed on the inner edge of the wing where is would not likely be damaged when it is open and subject to wear and abrasion. Also, you could sew two longitudinal strips of the loop velcro on either side of the zipper sections. When you want to dive it in a big displacement configuration, you could apply a 2-3 inch wide strip of ballistic nylon sheath over the open zipper and have this piece held with the two, matching stips of hook velcro...

To convert to the small displacement configuration, just rip the velcro-held strip off, zip it up and dive!

It really does not sound like a gimmick to me at all!

Welcome to Wetwear - Custom Wet Suits of Rubatex Neoprene for Scuba Diving and All Water Activities

Check out the first wetsuit on this page, they have zippers on the arms and legs like this.

 

[stuartv]

Wow a zipper sounds like it might be the simple and obvious solution! You just fold in a portion of the wing on itself and zip around the perimeter, shrinking the wing proportions in a somewhat uniform amount.

Exactly. I don't think it needs to be that fancy or complicated, though. The strength of the zipper only needs to be enough to prevent it from "giving" when you have the wing zipped up (so, the minimum lift amount) and the internal pressure is high enough to cause the OPV to open. I suspect that that means a fairly small zipper would work just fine. And I would think a simple flap of the wing material that is 1/2" to 1" wide, that runs around the perimeter of the wing would sufficient to completely fold over and cover the zipper. When the wing is zipped up, the flap of material would completely cover the entire zipper. When the wing is unzipped for max lift, the flap would cover the half of the zipper. I would think, of the self-repairing type. Or maybe get a little clever and do two overlapping flaps, so the zipper is almost completely covered at all times.

The idea is so appealing to me, I am tempted to buy a 30 - 40 pound donut wing and take it to a local seamstress and see if I can get it altered to these specs.

 

[danvolker]

Exactly. I don't think it needs to be that fancy or complicated, though. The strength of the zipper only needs to be enough to prevent it from "giving" when you have the wing zipped up (so, the minimum lift amount) and the internal pressure is high enough to cause the OPV to open. I suspect that that means a fairly small zipper would work just fine. And I would think a simple flap of the wing material that is 1/2" to 1" wide, that runs around the perimeter of the wing would sufficient to completely fold over and cover the zipper. When the wing is zipped up, the flap of material would completely cover the entire zipper. When the wing is unzipped for max lift, the flap would cover the half of the zipper. I would think, of the self-repairing type. Or maybe get a little clever and do two overlapping flaps, so the zipper is almost completely covered at all times.

The idea is so appealing to me, I am tempted to buy a 30 - 40 pound donut wing and take it to a local seamstress and see if I can get it altered to these specs.

I am thinking that the bladder, rolled up inside to fit the decreased size zippered wing, may likely keep air in parts of the bladder you can't easily dump, and this may become very problematic on jumping in to the water off a boat on a hot drop, or, if you are down 100 feet or so and need to pop up to 60 quickly for something--you may get some sudden air expansion and difficulty in control of air volume....Maybe.... guess you will have to play "Test Pilot"

 

[ams511]

I am thinking that the bladder, rolled up inside to fit the decreased size zippered wing, may likely keep air in parts of the bladder you can't easily dump, and this may become very problematic on jumping in to the water off a boat on a hot drop, or, if you are down 100 feet or so and need to pop up to 60 quickly for something--you may get some sudden air expansion and difficulty in control of air volume....Maybe.... guess you will have to play "Test Pilot"

Thinking outside the box here. How about a stiff wing like a bellows with no inner bladder. It would not flop in current and could have bungies to keep it tight when not inflated.

 

[danvolker]

Thinking outside the box here. How about a stiff wing like a bellows with no inner bladder. It would not flop in current and could have bungies to keep it tight when not inflated.

Wings with ...Bee.Bee.Bee......"Bungees".....??? Bungees......Niagara Falls....Slowly I turned....
[video=youtube_share;MYP1OBZfFK0]http://youtu.be/MYP1OBZfFK0[/video]

 

[Akimbo]

Thinking outside the box here. How about a stiff wing like a bellows with no inner bladder. It would not flop in current and could have bungies to keep it tight when not inflated.

Then you are pushing the full hydrodynamic drag through the water all the time instead of just when it is fully inflated. Honestly, the elastic cover on the Ad-Pac (image above) works great. You would probably need the elastic bag to be on top of a more rugged cover since an elastic material is not likely to provide enough protection.

 

[ams511]

And then when I got around to asking "have you thought about making a Torus wing with a zipper around...", that was as far as I got into my question before he cut me off and said, curtly, "we're already making everything we've thought of."

I can't believe you asked him that. There must be 100 posts from Tobin saying that you do not need a zipper, just send the wing back to him if it needs repair. BTW, the LCD does have a zipper. DSS plates are great. Their harnesses are nothing special. Their wings are nice for travel because they are flexible but they are no more durable than anyone else's. I have a LCD 30 and 20 and from my experience there is really no difference between them for warm water diving. So if you have a 30 lb just enjoy it and don't worry. There is nothing wrong with having more lift than needed.

 

[stuartv]

I can't believe you asked him that. There must be 100 posts from Tobin saying that you do not need a zipper, just send the wing back to him if it needs repair.

If you read my whole post (or posts?) you would understand that I was trying to ask about using a zipper to make the wing expandable/collapsible. Like an expansion panel on some suitcases. Nothing to do with repair.

 

[ams511]

Wings with ...Bee.Bee.Bee......"Bungees".....??? Bungees......Niagara Falls....Slowly I turned....

While I respect DIR, they are full of it when it comes to bungies. A Zeagle Express Tec has bungies holding the wing and it is no more difficult to inflate than a Halcyon.

---------- Post added January 20th, 2015 at 09:15 AM ----------

If you read my whole post (or posts?) you would understand that I was trying to ask about using a zipper to make the wing expandable/collapsible. Like an expansion panel on some suitcases. Nothing to do with repair.

I did read your posts but didn't get that is what you are asking. I am sure Tobin didn't either. Even people that like him admits he is not the most personable of people.

---------- Post added January 20th, 2015 at 09:20 AM ----------

Then you are pushing the full hydrodynamic drag through the water all the time instead of just when it is fully inflated. Honestly, the elastic cover on the Ad-Pac (image above) works great. You would probably need the elastic bag to be on top of a more rugged cover since an elastic material is not likely to provide enough protection.

I am not an expert in hydrodynamics but maybe you are. What has more drag a floppy wing or a rigid one?

 

[stuartv]

While I respect DIR, they are full of it when it comes to bungies. A Zeagle Express Tec has bungies holding the wing and it is no more difficult to inflate than a Halcyon.

---------- Post added January 20th, 2015 at 09:15 AM ----------



I did read your posts but didn't get that is what you are asking. I am sure Tobin didn't either. Even people that like him admits he is not the most personable of people.

Yeah, it was a few posts prior to the one you quoted where I was talking about the zipper expansion panel and I said something like maybe I'll call Tobin and ask him about it. He actually cut me off while I was starting to say zipper. As in, he started his interjection as soon as I said "Have you ever thought about...".

As I ponder it, I suspect the thing with bungees (or A thing) is that if you're using it to keep the wing collapsed/compressed when it's not fully inflated (to reduce drag), then what you are doing is requiring that more air be put in to achieve the same amount of internal volume - i.e. more air to get the desired lift. That is because the internal pressure is working against external water pressure PLUS the constricting pressure of the bungee.

All of which means that you would increase your air usage when using a wing that has bungees/elastic to compress it, compared to a wing that doesn't have bungees.

That said, it seems like the actual difference in air usage would be so small as to be negligible, if it's even measurable.

Or is there some other reason the DIR folks don't like bungees? It seems like they would like a wing that is held in tight to the back plate when it's not fully inflated.