Build the Perfect Certification Agency

[drrich2]

If you are a vacation diver, celebrate that fact! join the IDEA vacation diving fraternity with other vacation divers and have a course content that really speaks to your experience. Network, meet up at IDEA resort events, share your experiences online.

Under the current system, a person can complete the OW course and by his/her own choice self-restrict to guided tropical vacation diving. Judging from views I've seen expressed in other threads about the quality of much of the 'diver crop' turned out by mainstream OW courses these days, it's hard to imagine this 'Resort Diver certification course' would please people by having lower training than the current OW course.

While I can understand the logic of more narrowly defined cert.s (e.g.: tropical diver, cold water ocean diver, etc...), seems to me that under the current system people are advised to restrict themselves to conditions as good or better than what they trained in, and grow slowly into more demanding conditions via additional training or mentorship.

Richard.

 

[RJP]

join the IDEA vacation diving fraternity with other vacation divers and have a course content that really speaks to your experience. Network, meet up at IDEA resort events, share your experiences online. If you want to be an independent diver, Yahoo! Why not feel a sense of belonging with other independent divers who also take the type of training they need.

I'm never quite sure why so many divers push "belonging" and "community" and the like. (Beyond the ironic aspect of a "community" of independent divers."

The vast majority of divers - in fact the majority of people - don't really need or want to belong to yet another "community" of people. Many people actually find the idea joining a community off-putting and/or intimidating. I don't feel a need to be part of a guitar community, a cycling community, a swimming community, etc.

I can't deal with another community... can't I just go diving?

 

[drrich2]

Ancedote. We did a remote lake and some experienced divers showed up. Another diver also showed up with gear she didn't know how to put together, how much weight she needed, couldn't reach her releases or find her octo, had trouble getting down and could only flail about in a crazy fashion. I was actually afraid for her the whole time and only because I did not want her to die, acted as her personal dive buddy/guide. I was so glad when she called the dive and said that was enough for the weekend

7-8 hours of driving for 15 minutes of diving.

She wasn't a bad person. She believed she was certified as an open water diver so why not do an open water dive. Her actual experience was really in warm water with guides and while she liked going diving she wasn't really into the whole "diving" thing. But... she was as certified as the rest of us and no one told her any different. When you've met a few of those cases you begin to wonder if there might be a better way.

This reminds me of Jim Lapenta, I believe it was, in another thread pointing out that mainstream dive training emphasizes how safe diving is instead of how dangerous it is, giving a false sense of security/over-confidence (not his words). Perhaps, in like fashion, educational materials should better emphasize some of the dangerousness of diving and environments:

1.) Ease of panic.

2.) How task loading can overwhelm a person surprisingly easily.

3.) How a minor problem turns major when you're already task loaded with diving.

4.) Common gear failure scenarios.

5.) Knowledge & skill deterioration during extended 'dry spells' (without diving).

In your anecdote, the woman was probably trained to assemble gear & probably could do it at one point. But by the time she reached you, she couldn't. A course, a certification, even a manual, there's only so much you can do before personal responsibility plays a role.

She believed she was certified as an open water diver so why not do an open water dive.

That level of ignorance is dangerous. Is it the agency's fault she was that ignorant?

Richard.

 

[RJP]

That level of ignorance is dangerous. Is it the agency's fault she was that ignorant?

Richard.

Ignorance is rarely "someone else's" fault.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2015 at 12:44 AM ----------

Perhaps, in like fashion, educational materials should better emphasize some of the dangerousness of diving and environments:

1.) Ease of panic.

2.) How task loading can overwhelm a person surprisingly easily.

3.) How a minor problem turns major when you're already task loaded with diving.

4.) Common gear failure scenarios.

5.) Knowledge & skill deterioration during extended 'dry spells' (without diving).


Richard.

Ooh... sign me up!

Maybe we can coat the the paper with a chemical that burns the skin so that handling the material actually causes physical discomfort too.

Everything you're asking for above is included in the current training materials. Do we really need to hit people over the head with it?

 

[DaleC]

I'm never quite sure why so many divers push "belonging" and "community" and the like. (Beyond the ironic aspect of a "community" of independent divers."

The vast majority of divers - in fact the majority of people - don't really need or want to belong to yet another "community" of people. Many people actually find the idea joining a community off-putting and/or intimidating. I don't feel a need to be part of a guitar community, a cycling community, a swimming community, etc.

I can't deal with another community... can't I just go diving?

Weird that you're such an active member of this community

 

[RJP]

Weird that you're such an active member of this community

A community? Nah, it's an affinity group at best. We're all simply spending time enjoying our own company in the (virtual) presence of others.

:d

 

[AdivingBel]

But then that means that we aren't special....???:d

Oh don't worry, we're very very special. Just not short bus with a helmet special...we'll maybe not all of us...

(I apologize in advance for my lack of political correctness )

 

[DaleC]

And doing so in the nude

 

[TSandM]

Maybe, in addition to liking standardization and a strong skill set, the people who gravitate to GUE diving are community-oriented. I know one of the things I LOVE about the diving world I inhabit is that, no matter where I go, I'm immediately greeted, accepted, and feel a part of things. Go to a restaurant in Puerto Aventuras . . . if you have a GUE t-shirt on, somebody's going to invite you to join their table.

I never felt that way (and still don't) about PADI, because the marketing there is so in your face. PADI wants you to wear their t-shirt because it advertises PADI. I don't think GUE gives a rats patootie if you advertise them. (Sometimes I wish they would!)

 

[AdivingBel]

But there are other types of divers. Those who want the experience but don't want to invest in becoming skilled divers. They are ok with others setting up their gear, telling them how deep, how long and where to go. Afterwards they will say they had a fantastic experience if they saw what they hoped for and didn't get sea sick.

I get what you're saying, but I don't really see the problem with this type of diver. They executed the dive within their (limited) comfort zone, came back safely, and had a good time. Win -Win. I love vacation divers. They are some of the most joyful people on the planet.

Another diver also showed up with gear she didn't know how to put together, how much weight she needed, couldn't reach her releases or find her octo, had trouble getting down and could only flail about in a crazy fashion. I was actually afraid for her the whole time and only because I did not want her to die, acted as her personal dive buddy/guide.

I certainly commend you for holding her hair so she didn't drown. We've all seen these instances as well as the "experienced" diver that chooses to lay on the reef to get the perfect shot. They are both scary and sad. Anyone that straps a 40 lb. tank to their back, lead on their waist, and hops in the deep end without preparing themselves and assessing the risks is foolish. But again from my anecdotal perspective, they are few and far between compared to the THOUSANDS of competent (if not graceful) divers that the current system produces. If the system can be improved, we should all be willing to listen (the point of this thread), but all the agency realignment and instructor retraining in the world won't weed out all the "bad apples." IMHO, the attitude and level of personal responsibility of the individual is king and that's human nature. My OW instructor and training materials stressed personal responsibility and protecting the environment along with the basic OW technical skills.

---------- Post added January 9th, 2015 at 12:31 AM ----------

And doing so in the nude

I think I read that in a fortune cookie...oh wait, that was "in bed"...my bad