Buddy wants me to take him night diving?

[Jack Hammer]

Some people need an instructor, some don't. Some instructors are very good, some are very bad. Some "experienced" buddies are very good, some "experienced" buddies are very bad. Some instructors and some "experienced" buddies both do a great job helping other divers to learn, some instructors and some "experienced" buddies do a good job helping other divers and themelves to get dead, bent, or far too close to either... Dive enough and one tends to see the sad truth of this.

If neither party is comfortable then its probably not a good idea at this point to make the dive, there will be plenty of night diving available some other time.

Sent via flying butt monkie using Tapatalk 2

 

[T.C.]

Well, despite your attempts to make it about me (for whatever weird reason seems to motivate you to continuously do so) I'm going to try to put it back in perspective again.

I'm making it about you?!? Really? When you reply to me, and you insult me, that's somehow making it about you? That's rich.

What I was saying is that generally speaking, instructors have relatively more experience, due to the nature of teaching, with keeping novel situations under control.

Actually, no. They know where things will likely go wrong, because they've seen it happen before. They know, for example, that the first time a student floods their mask, they may panic. This isn't because it's "novel", it's because they've seen it before. It isn't because they have a "radar", it's because experience has taught them this is were things go wrong. It is not "novel", it's just a lack of experience from the student.

This isn't a unique skill to instructors. Anyone with common sense and experience in the skill being taught can do this. I can throw you into all sorts of "novel situations" and despite your "nature of teaching", you'd be lost.

That's not to say that other divers don't have this or that instructors are somehow better than everyone else, just that as a general rule instructors have relatively more experience with seeing how people act/react in novel situations.

And as a general rule, you don't need an instructor to learn to night dive. You'll learn just as well from an experience buddy. Night Diving is another skill, like buoyancy control, photography, boat diving or fish ID that an instructor's input is just not required.

Sorry if you feel diminished, but that's the truth.

You came into this thread insulting PADI, then insulting instructors generally and finally me specifically. I'm not sure what anyone is supposed to glean from that but I'm personally having trouble seeing any added value in your contribution.

1. No one gives a rip about PADI.
2. I never insulted instructors. The closest I can find is that I pointed out a fact, you have to pay them. That is NOT an insult.
3. I never insulted you. Not Once. To state this is a bald-faced lie.

You, on the other hand, directly insulted me by accusing me of torturing cats. This is the second time you've insulted me. Please point out how your accusing me of crimes and pychopathy has added any value to this discussion.

 

[Diver0001]

T.C. I'm not sure how we got to bickering but if I misunderstood you I'm sorry for that.

You're obviously right that night diving isn't rocket science and learning to dive at night with an experienced buddy doesn't have to be unsafe by any means. I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that this is what I thought.

You're also right to point out that being an instructor does not make one uniquely qualified for handling novel situations safely. The point I was hoping to make is simply that due to the shear volume of experience in introducing divers to situations that are new to them, that instructors usually develop a high level of alertness for problems that could potentially escalate (what I called a radar). Do you have to be an instructor to have this? No. of course not.

R..

 

[T.C.]

I do believe we've worked out the issue.

As the OP asked, if you're looking for things to be cautious about, Diver0001 does have the point, an instructor will know what issues to be alert for. While a Night diver course may not be required, if you want to know what to be aware of, a discussion with an instructor may be helpful.

Nothing will replace a good briefing, plan, and discussion of the fundamentals.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

RDRINK25, if you have to ask, that is, if you doubt your own abilities to take your friend on a night dive, don't. If you have the skill, experience, credentials, and insurance to plan a dive and lead other divers on that dive, including on a night dive, I suspect the question would not have to be raised. Look inward, examine yourself. The issue is you, not the other diver.
DivemasterDennis

 

[T.C.]

RDRINK25, if you have to ask, that is, if you doubt your own abilities to take your friend on a night dive, don't.

Where is he doubting himself or his abilities?

If you have the ..credentials, and insurance to plan a dive and lead other divers on that dive, including on a night dive, I suspect the question would not have to be raised.

When is this ever an issue for recreational divers? I've lead plenty of dives, and never needed "credentials" or insurance to do so.

A divemaster is not a requirement for any kind of diving.

 

[Donnah]

We've taken a number of people on a first night dive. I never thought about it as an issue. We did, however, talk a lot about the dive beforehand -- here's what it is like, Ok to feel a bit spooked, how to use the light, how to communicate, how close to stay to each other, what we are going to do. Even if there is a DM briefing, it is still important to go over the basics. We held off on the night dive "tales" until after the dive!

 

[Bob DBF]

Quote Originally Posted by DivemasterDennis View Post
RDRINK25, if you have to ask, that is, if you doubt your own abilities to take your friend on a night dive, don't.

Where is he doubting himself or his abilities?

I'd say when he asks a bunch of [-]knuckleheads[/-] experts on the internet if he should cancel his night dive.

Should I be concerned to take him and just cancel the dive?

Bob
----------------------------------
I think that advocating unsafe and dangerous practices is both stupid and foolish. That is why I don't tell people to do what I do. Dsix36

 

[phoenix31tt]

I'd say when he asks a bunch of [-]knuckleheads[/-] experts on the internet if he should cancel his night dive.

why does asking a question on a forum always boil down to that?

one of the purposes of a forum is to solicit feedback from others who have been in a situation before... that doesn't mean the person has doubts about themselves or their own abilities... they just want to know what others think...

i posted awhile back about should i get a pony bottle... that's not me doubting myself or my abilities in any way...

 

[T.C.]

I'd say when he asks a bunch of [-]knuckleheads[/-] experts on the internet if he should cancel his night dive.

Wow; insightful. Clearly you can read his mind and determine that merely asking questions means he "doubts his abilities".

I guess when I asked what sites I should dive my first trip in Bonaire, I "doubted" my abilities to diver there, huh?
I guess when I asked what a critter I saw in Roatan was, I "doubted" my abilities to ID fish, huh?

Or when anyone asks for advice, they're "doubting their abilities"?

Asking advice cannot be construed as doubting. It's merely asking for advice. Honestly, with "experienced" divers like you and the "divemaster" telling people they shouldn't do certain dives, it's a miracle that new divers ever progress.