Buddy wants me to take him night diving?

[Diver0001]

NO! You must go to your nearest PADI store, empty your wallet, and become certified as "Night Diver". Otherwise, you will DIE!!!

I'm sure this was said partly tongue in cheek but strangely you're the first person on this thread to suggest that.

There have been, however other posts suggesting how to approach it and some reminders of the potential risks and pitfalls.

One of the reasons I asked if the OP had been diving with his/her friend before and the reason I asked how much experience the friend had was to get an idea of some of the risk points I see (inexperience, unfamiliarity, possibly incomplete or untested skill sets)....

Like you, I have limited use for "cards". But unlike you I recognize that taking a course has another function, which is to gain that first introduction to a new aspect of diving under controlled conditions.

This is not to say that the OP cannot offer "controlled conditions". I don't know him/her and for all I know they are the best night-diver on the planet. What I *do* know, however, is that instructors who have been working for very long develop an incredibly sensitive "radar" for problems and in most cases an incredibly acute ability to "avoid" problems.

So yeah, I understand what you're saying, which is that a "specialty" for the sake of taking a specialty can easily be a waste of time/money but on the other hand, I would like to suggest that not all specialties are a rip-off.

R..

 

[T.C.]

I'm sure this was said partly tongue in cheek but strangely you're the first person on this thread to suggest that.

Actually, as my post points out, I wasn't. BRT beat me too it by almost a day. I just didn't read before responding. He deserves the credit, not me.

Like you, I have limited use for "cards". But unlike you I recognize that taking a course has another function, which is to gain that first introduction to a new aspect of diving under controlled conditions.

What's the difference between going over the chapter in an AOW manual, making a good plan, and doing the dive with an experienced buddy than doing it with an instructor?

Answer: You have to pay the instructor.

How will an instructor make the same body of water "controlled"? Are they Neptune, King of the Seas, able to calm waves and still currents with their mighty voice?

I would like to suggest that not all specialties are a rip-off.

You're right. Nitrox isn't really a ripoff, as you'll need that card later. Are there any other specialties that require a card, or can you acquire those skills with common sense and practice?

 

[RDRINK25]

Thanks all for the insight.

I have dove the sight 50 times and am very familiar with it. It is a training spring (vortex springs) in fl. We will be in 30' MAX.

I have dove with him one weekend when he first got certified and he seemed comfortable in the water then. He since has 20 dives and more dives this year than I have.

I just wanted to get some insight as I have never done a night dive with someone that hasn't and it being their first.

 

[Diver0001]

What's the difference between going over the chapter in an AOW manual, making a good plan, and doing the dive with an experienced buddy than doing it with an instructor?

In terms of theory... in most cases, nothing.

How will an instructor make the same body of water "controlled"? Are they Neptune, King of the Seas, able to calm waves and still currents with their mighty voice?

The clue is in my previous post. You'll have to read it, though. Reading can be bit like listening. Some people listen only to hear the pauses where they can jump in and start blathering again. Others listen to hear what is being said.

I can't help that. What I can do is to point it out and hope for the best.

R..

---------- Post added March 29th, 2014 at 02:40 AM ----------

Thanks all for the insight.

I have dove the sight 50 times and am very familiar with it. It is a training spring (vortex springs) in fl. We will be in 30' MAX.

I have dove with him one weekend when he first got certified and he seemed comfortable in the water then. He since has 20 dives and more dives this year than I have.

I just wanted to get some insight as I have never done a night dive with someone that hasn't and it being their first.

If he is comfortable and you are experienced then with a decent plan (including lost-buddy contingencies) then I don't see an unacceptable risk.

The biggest risk you run during any dive and especially at night is to get separated. You need to be careful to communicate clearly about changes in tempo, depth or direction. During the day you need to do the same but at night visibility is more limited, your buddy is hard to see from behind, and the need for communication is proportionally increased.

Aside from that, have fun.

R..

 

[T.C.]

In terms of theory... in most cases, nothing.

There is no practical difference. NONE.

An instructor offers nothing for Night Diver an experienced buddy can't offer. Sorry, your job on this specialty just isn't that important.

The clue is in my previous post. You'll have to read it, though. Reading can be bit like listening. Some people listen only to hear the pauses where they can jump in and start blathering again. Others listen to hear what is being said.
I can't help that. What I can do is to point it out and hope for the best.

No, I got it. You don't think other divers can assess conditions and potential problems. Apparently, when a diver becomes "Instructor" they gain this magical "radar" to divine the waters and see into the future?

Sorry, again, but your instructor card doesn't grant magical powers. What can you offer as an instructor that an experienced buddy can't? An experienced buddy can assess the conditions and possibility of problems as well as an instructor for this specialty. Occasionally, better.

The key is not the c-card you bought, but the experience you've accumulated.

 

[Diver0001]

Apparently, when a diver becomes "Instructor" they gain this magical "radar" to divine the waters and see into the future?

Er... no. The "radar" is something that builds up with experience teaching people to do new things.

What I see here is you being unnecessarily argumentative again (for the Nth time). I'm not sure why you're like this but your tone is disruptive and negative whenever you decide to join a thread. Don't you have anything better to do, like torture cats or something?

R..

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I have a friend that is OW certified and wants to go to spring with me and do a shallow night dive. We will be in 30' and I am a PADI MAster diver. I have dove with him before and he is a good diver. Should I be concerned to take him and just cancel the dive?

Thanks all for the insight.

I have dove the sight 50 times and am very familiar with it. It is a training spring (vortex springs) in fl. We will be in 30' MAX.

I have dove with him one weekend when he first got certified and he seemed comfortable in the water then. He since has 20 dives and more dives this year than I have.

I just wanted to get some insight as I have never done a night dive with someone that hasn't and it being their first.

Honestly - I would cancel if I were you - I have read through the thread and you don't sound convinced that you are ready for this dive. Do it another time or do it with other more experienced divers if that will give you the confidence to do the dive correctly. My 2 cents.

 

[Fundive123]

It sounds like you might be hesitant of your friends diving ability/what he might do/not do on the night dive??... If you are uncomfortable about his ability to be a good buddy, then have a casual chat with him about his diving experience and tough situations he's been in etc... One thing I quickly learned is to just sit down with a perspective dive buddy and talk about diving and get a gist of the other persons experience and what they like to do when they dive i.e. photography/mapping/fish id/hunting etc. That way you both understand each others experiences and how they have handled tough situations before. For example, someone who asked to go diving with me told me they were a AOW diver and had many certification cards and was really experienced and had several hundred of dives that she had been on and went on to tell me of all the places she had dove. It wasn't until I started asking the person about their gear that I became skeptical. The person couldn't tell me the brand of any of "her" gear, nor if she had a back inflate, jacket, or bp/w etc... I then asked if she had ever used a compass and she said "yes, of course, I use one on every dive." I then grabbed my compass and handed it to her and asked her to show me how to use it... the response was "This compass points to North and land is always on the East, so you just swim East to reach land"... needless to say I didn't dive with the person...

So just sit down and talk with him, tell him what you're hesitant about... maybe do a dive before its dark and practice scenarios in the beginning or near the end of the dive to see if you both feel comfortable to do a night dive later with each other? If you're feeling uncomfortable just cancel it. No need to try and convience yourself... if you're hesitant there's probably a good reason

 

[T.C.]

Er... no. The "radar" is something that builds up with experience teaching people to do new things.

Close to what I've said. However, in this case, the 'teaching' part has little to do with it.

"The key is not the c-card you bought, but the experience you've accumulated."

What I see here is you being unnecessarily argumentative again (for the Nth time). I'm not sure why you're like this but your tone is disruptive and negative whenever you decide to join a thread. Don't you have anything better to do, like torture cats or something?

Not true at all. I am NOT being argumentative. I'm pointing out that you, as an instructor, don't have a special skill to offer here. You seem to get upset whenever the thread doesn't go your way. Instead, you now decide to accuse me of crimes and psychopathy.

Is this just your pattern, to insult people when they have the audacity to disagree with you? I have not insulted you; so what compels you to take cheap shots at me? Or do you seek me out just to try to provoke me? This is the third time youve done this. Why?

 

[Diver0001]

I'm pointing out that you, as an instructor, don't have a special skill to offer here.

Well, despite your attempts to make it about me (for whatever weird reason seems to motivate you to continuously do so) I'm going to try to put it back in perspective again.

What I was saying is that generally speaking, instructors have relatively more experience, due to the nature of teaching, with keeping novel situations under control.

This is inherent to the nature of teaching. Much of what instructors do implies by nature that they are exposing people to new experiences. It stands to reason, therefore, that they generally develop a keen eye for developing problems before they get to the point of reaching a head. I called this a "radar". It's not crystal ball work or magic. It's just a matter of having seen it happen 100 times before.

That's not to say that other divers don't have this or that instructors are somehow better than everyone else, just that as a general rule instructors have relatively more experience with seeing how people act/react in novel situations.

You came into this thread insulting PADI, then insulting instructors generally and finally me specifically. I'm not sure what anyone is supposed to glean from that but I'm personally having trouble seeing any added value in your contribution.

R..