Buddy OOA in Challenging Conditions

[Beiji]

I'm not sure I would say that Mercedes was a "rescue diver ready to go." She swam out to Trish and blew up her BC, but she didn't have any gear on and didn't take anything with her. However, another diver who had finished his dive (I believe he was an instructor) went out to Trish and gave her a regulator. I'm not trying to take anything away from what they did; they saved Trish, for which I am grateful. But I didn't know that's how it would play out when I got separated from Trish.

If I had stayed with Trish she would have still have had air and may have been able to put air in her BC. I may have been able to calm her down.

Yes, I did feel like I was exhausted when I was on the line, but I found out that I did have the strength and energy to pull myself in with some encouragement from Mercedes. I was defeating myself in my thinking, but my body was actually okay. I even went on the second dive.

I wouldn't have expected the boat to have picked us up right away if I had managed to hold onto Trish. I had my safety sausage, an air horn, a small mirror, and two whistles. And I still had air in my tank. I'm not sure what our situation would have been had we stayed together but been taken away from the boat by the current.

Fast97rs, I would be interested in hearing more of what you think since this an area where you dive often.

 

[Beiji]

Memory is a funny thing. I met with Trish yesterday, and we talked a bit about what happened last week. She says that the line we had used to go from the boat to the descent line/anchor line was not there when we surfaced. (I'm sorry that I can't keep the names of all these lines straight.) Whereas I thought that when I lost the line it was that line. She says I must have lost the upline (anchor line) after I got hit. I'm hoping to talk to someone else who was on that dive to find out which of us is right about the line.

I also found out from her that she started looking for the upline when she had around 1200 psi, and we were not far from the line. It was behind us at that point. She went in the wrong direction looking for it, and by the time we got back to it she had only 300 psi.

 

[Ayisha]

A tag line (granny line) or the lack thereof can make a huge difference when you have to swim against the current from the ascent line to the boat. Some boats don't put them out sometimes even when there's moderate current and it can make for very frustrated, tired divers by the time they make it to the ladder. That is, if they don't lose steam and get blown away in the current. It's so much easier and safer for the divers if they just put the tag line out whenever there's current.

Take a look before you splash to gauge the current and don't be afraid to ask for a tag line. The current can change at any time, so better to be safe than sorry.

When you lost the line, was it a thin line or the very thick rope? A tag line is typically a thin line that runs horizontally while you know, of course, that the upline is very thick.

 

[fast97rs]

Lisa... You can address me by name. Its me Jorge : ) I'm not hiding who I am

Yea, they remove the guide line from the decent line and put out a tag line once all the divers decend.


Mercedes is acting DM on that trip... so yea, she is a dressed rescue diver. She rushed the water because of that situation. If she'd have stopped to put on fins Trish would have most likely started to sink.

The only plus i could have told you about would have been to try to hold onto her while you were on the tag line... but drifting away with her is a bad idea. She was in full panic and if she would have faught you, she would have subdued you in your mentally/physically exhausted state.

The current from the reports, was less then 1 knot that day... so if you had a hard time pulling yourself in, you were really tired.

Also.... have you thought that you might have too much gear? Thats ALOT to drag around and would also lead to increased fatigue.

Put the airhorn on your Air 2 (removes the extra hose), and try to slim down on your gear. Simpler is better. I don't remember 100% how your gear setup looks like... feel free to send me a picture of your setup, and we can go over how you rig it all. : )

Also... divers don't have to be marathon runners... but no gear can EVER replace good cardio/personal fitness. Your in good shape, and i know i am FAR from lean, but I wake up every morning and swim freestyle (350 yards). You might want to try to work on your cardio. ALSO... the difference from board shorts to a speedo is MASSIVE when your trying to swim long distances... think about how much extra drag you have on your gear.

 

[Beiji]

Less than 1 knot? Really?!!! Okay, is surge the same thing as current? Because where I was having trouble was with the surge that pushed me backwards on the line. Swimming with Mercedes I saw that you have to move forward with the surge and hang on when the surge is moving in the other direction.

I do cardio and strength, but I should probably up my strength training, and I have lifelong issues with fatigue (it's not major, but I always have to take it into consideration). The hose I have my air horn on is my drysuit hose. The Air Alert or whatever it's called fits that hose but not my Air2. I'll have to think about that one. Mercedes talked to me about drag too and suggested I not take my camera every time. It did help to not take my camera because it was one less thing to worry about. She also told me to get slightly negative when on the tag line which helped too.

Jorge, you're right. You just can't know what might have happened. We got separated almost as soon as we surfaced and before I got to the tag line. I'm thankful everyone was okay.

Thanks, everyone, for helping me with the line terminology!

 

[danvolker]

1) There was a rescue diver ready to go. That's who performed the rescue

2) She was so exhausted she could barely hold on to the line... how do you expect her to perform a rescue in that condition? First thing you learn in rescue is that you should always make sure you are safe and in a good enough position to do the rescue before even attempting it.

3) What rescue craft? They were 10minutes into everyone else's dive... no chance the boat would have untied from the wreck and left the boat full of divers to go pick them up.


I agree that if Lisa would have been up to the task she should have stayed with the diver and done the rescue/tow back to the boat herself... or untill relieved by the divemaster... BUT that was not the case.


Also.... why is everyone blaming the gear here? Fair enough... a larger primary cylinder would not have depleted as quickly... and a larger pony would have lasted longer as well...

The issue here isn't the gear but the implementation of the gear/resources the divers had. The 13' pony lasted long enough for a 3minute safety stop.... Thus, it was large enough for a proper accent and surface inflation. A larger primary cylinder and pony would have only led to more diver fatigue.

Drag your finger through the water. That creates drag and a lot of it... people forget how much drag simply having an extra hose creates. More gear is not the solution here. Properly rigged gear and its implimintation is.

Assuming the current was one knot or more ( from accounts so far), WHY was the wreck drop not performed as a drift dive? Everyone can get down with zero effort, each person gets to surface with buddy when one of a buddy team reaches the pre-agreed on pressure in their tank--and the boat would be there to pick them up. Teams can either hook off their own float flag to the wreck, or be able to deploy a SMB, then they can deploy that when they do their safety stop.

I will NEVER get why some charter boats are so lazy that they insist on anchoring in a current. In Palm Beach, we dive wrecks with currents sometimes exceeding 3 knots for the deep wrecks, and it is always a drift drop ( whether no current or big current), and the proceedure is so simple it is hard to imagine any other way to dive wrecks.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I will NEVER get why some cyber divers insist there is only one good way to dive; the way they dive.

There are many successful charter trips to wrecks where the surface current being 1-2 knots does not make the charter boat "lazy" to use the mooring or an anchor; it is the best way for the conditions of that site and the skills of the divers.

For "recreational wreck diving" Key Largo, Florida may host more wreck dives than just about anywhere on the planet, often with 1-2 knot surface current, yet the "vast majority" of those dives are moored. Would that really be the preferred method if it wasn't the best method?

Oahu, Hawaii hosts a significant number of "recreational wreck dives" and the "vast majority" of those dives are moored, again often with 1-2 knot surface current. In the "Litigating" States of America, why would a US charter operator take on more risk being sued with a business practice that is not the safest practice?

 

[danvolker]

I will NEVER get why some cyber divers insist there is only one good way to dive; the way they dive.

There are many successful charter trips to wrecks where the surface current being 1-2 knots does not make the charter boat "lazy" to use the mooring or an anchor; it is the best way for the conditions of that site and the skills of the divers.

For "recreational wreck diving" Key Largo, Florida may host more wreck dives than just about anywhere on the planet, often with 1-2 knot surface current, yet the "vast majority" of those dives are moored. Would that really be the preferred method if it wasn't the best method?

Oahu, Hawaii hosts a significant number of "recreational wreck dives" and the "vast majority" of those dives are moored, again often with 1-2 knot surface current. In the "Litigating" States of America, why would a US charter operator take on more risk being sued with a business practice that is not the safest practice?

I guess the nicest thing I can say, is that I get great amusement from Halemano posts....