Buddy got bent, sort of...

[Racket]

If only he had a nitrox snorkel, this wouldn't have happened.

What about a nitrox whistle?

 

[DiveMaven]

I still think that doing a 100 ft dive for your first post-cert dives is extreme, and I would fault the DM for bringing you on that dive. Even though I know lots of people ignore the rule, the fact is that OW only certifies you to dive to 60. I didn't do a dive past 60 until my AOW class. I'm just not comfortable with pushing the limits and ignoring rules of thumb in such a dangerous sport.

I didn't notice anyone clarifying this issue, so I'm going to jump in. OW certifies a diver to dive to 130 feet. PADI's RECOMMENDS that an OW diver go no deeper than 60 feet, an AOW diver to 100 feet, and someone with a Deep Diver Specialty to 130 feet.

 

[DandyDon]

I didn't notice anyone clarifying this issue, so I'm going to jump in. OW certifies a diver to dive to 130 feet. PADI's RECOMMENDS that an OW diver go no deeper than 60 feet, an AOW diver to 100 feet, and someone with a Deep Diver Specialty to 130 feet.

Ah, thank you - good point. 20 to 60 ft diving is fine on some reefs, but so often the vacationer will end up on a mixed boat with divers who want to do the 60-100 deep reefs, and that's where the boat goes. I've been OW divers do first post-cert dive in that range. Not that I'd suggest it, but it happens all the time.

Better to encourage the :newbie: in ways that will benefit. Like, "that's deep for a newbie, but if you're gonna do it....blah blah."

 

[cummings66]

You never abandon your buddy.

That's not quite true. I'll tell a true story as to why it is ok to abandon your buddy, I think.

I was diving with a new diver to cold water, he'd only done warm waters at this point. We did our dive plan and discussed various things. We hop in the water and down he goes, faster and faster. I tried to keep up, I'm on Nitrox with a mod of I think around 80 feet. We discussed the MOD, he was on air. He knew my max depth.

So down he's going, and we're coming up on my mod so I start fining harder trying to stop this man made piece of lead. We hit 80 and he's still outpacing me and actually gaining on me, he was a strong swimmer and my legs are getting slight cramps from trying to catch him. We hit 100 feet and he's going down still, same speed head down and fining but now I'm gaining on him. I was thinking at the time about how much risk I'm taking, wondering if with my heavy exertion I'm going to tox out soon or not. I'm now at 123 feet and just starting to consider giving up and surfacing, it's a hard decision and I was weighing it heavily, I consider a buddy assignment as a sacred duty.

So here I am, well beyond my mod thinking of whether I should keep chasing him and wondering why he's not responding to anything I do and whether my 3 year old at the time would have a father that night. I knew the risk was there and it troubled me greatly.

I caught him when he had to maneuver around a tree at 123 feet. Would I have followed him to my death trying to save him? I don't know for sure, I know I risked my neck doing what I did and it paid off.

Did I owe my buddy the stay together and die bit or not? I don't think so, I made every human attempt to stop him and I finally did. Did he realize his actions nearly cost us both our lives?

Would I do it again? I honestly don't know but this much I do know. I do not owe my buddy my life if he does something stupid. As I said I consider it a sacred duty, but it must be tempered with reality.

 

[Leejnd]

Wow. Well, first, let me say that my comment about never abandoning your buddy does not include giving your life for someone hell-bent on killing himself -- or you. It was more to the point of, you don't abandon your buddy so you can go off and have fun while your buddy runs out of air!

There are exceptions to every rule. This is clearly one of them. Besides, in this case, I think it's safe to say that HE was abandoning YOU...and you are certainly not obligated to follow your abandoning buddy to your death. I'm sure glad that didn't happen!

Meanwhile, I'm dying to know...what did you SAY to him afterwards???

 

[Leejnd]

I didn't notice anyone clarifying this issue, so I'm going to jump in. OW certifies a diver to dive to 130 feet. PADI's RECOMMENDS that an OW diver go no deeper than 60 feet, an AOW diver to 100 feet, and someone with a Deep Diver Specialty to 130 feet.

Certifies, recommends...whatever. I think you're splitting hairs. It's still an important point, although I'll concede I used the term "certifies" incorrectly. I personally do not believe that it is wise to go past the "recommendations" of your certifying agency based on your certification level...ESPECIALLY on your first dive immediately after certification! Now, if someone continues to dive and just never bothers to go on to get their AOW, that's a different story. Ultimately, experience will teach a diver what they need to know. But as Dandy Don pointed out, this is, after all the new diver's forum. Do you really think it's wise to be saying it's okay to ignore the "recommendations" of your certifying agency to people who've just learned the basics of keeping themselves alive underwater?

Just my opinion!

 

[DandyDon]

I've had Air diving buddies go below my 1.6 MOD while I was on Nitrox - one of several reasons I don't like that combination. I advise them of my 1.4 MOD and my 1.6 MOD in advance, warn them I'm not going below 1.6 for anything, then don't - even when they do. Those are rare cases, but that's my stand.

The honor of buddy diving does not require forfeiting your safety to save one from stupidity. You do what you can, but that's' beyond the call of duty.

 

[Leejnd]

The honor of buddy diving does not require forfeiting your safety to save one from stupidity. You do what you can, but that's' beyond the call of duty.

Very well put! Bravo!

 

[BubblesUp]

So glad someone mentioned the possibility of ears causing the dizziness! Some mild barotrauma, water in the ear or a bit of a block that hadn't resolved itself are all reasonable possibilities, so, shannonjon22, please don't feel guilty that you somehow caused his alleged "hit."

A thought about being paired with a diver with a better SAC rate...
If you stay a bit shallower than your buddy throughout the dive, you can offset some of the difference in air consumption. Pay attention, of course, to all the good advice you've already received about safe limits of seperation, and be sure to let your buddy know in advance that's where you'll be. I do this with my son (him above), and it works well for both of us. Will it offset the entire difference? No...but the difference won't be quite so lopsided.

 

[TSandM]

Shannon, you're getting a lot of different answers to your questions, and that's because there ARE different answers.

Every one of us has to construct a paradigm, or an ethos of diving, that works for us. This will cover things like the roles of dive buddies, and whether it's okay to separate under certain circumstances. It will cover what dives you will or will not do with various sorts of people. It will give you guidance as to what to do when YOU feel uncomfortable or insufficiently trained or skilled for a proposed dive. You then go on to behave according to YOUR ethos, and it may be different from mine. You won't even know all the principles that should be included when you are new, but experience will present problems that will show you what the issues are that you need to consider.

For me, I do not leave my buddy, and I don't think much of an experienced diver who sends a novice up to the surface by herself simply because she's run through her gas. If I buddy with a novice diver, I KNOW he will run through his gas quickly, and I expect a shorter dive, but part of the responsibility I have taken on by diving with him is to be there as his resource and steadying influence throughout the dive, and the ascent is one of the more difficult times.