Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

[doctormike]

No one tried to drag her to the surface.

I .. was only ascending as fast as my computer told me too. He kept motioning for me to go faster but i listened to my computer. Because he kept motioning I started going up faster until my computer started beeping at me. So I slowed down within my computers range. He then grabbed my hand and started pulling me up. It really freaked my out because my computer beeped and said "ascent too fast". I pulled my hand out of his grasp. He grabbed my hand 2-3 times more and I kept pulling my arm out of his grasp. ... Finally they back off and I try to do a safety stop. Within about a minute they are motioning for me to come up. I then sense someone behind me and could feel him grabbing my gear because I felt a pull.

Dunno, neither of us were there, but you seem pretty positive about what happened. From the OP, it sure sounds like someone was physically pulling her to the surface.

I tend to doubt that the OP had any more skills in operating her computer or managing her dive than she had in operating her BCD. I suspect she should be thanking her buddies rather than criticizing them.

Once again, I'm not sure why this new diver is being flamed, and your assumption is that her account of what happened is wrong.

I mean, sometimes a new diver comes in here dripping with attitude and it makes sense to give them some perspective. But this sure doesn't seem to be one of those cases. It seems like she was pushed into an ascent rate violation (one of the few objective facts that we have, recorded on her computer), and it seems like her buddy - whatever his diving skills were - didn't pay much attention to her as a new diver or as a buddy until the ascent. Not sure why so many people in this thread automatically assume that the buddy was doing things perfectly and that the OP was so terrible.

 

[redacted]

Once again, I'm not sure why this new diver is being flamed, and your assumption is that her account of what happened is wrong.

I mean, sometimes a new diver comes in here dripping with attitude and it makes sense to give them some perspective. But this sure doesn't seem to be one of those cases. It seems like she was pushed into an ascent rate violation (one of the few objective facts that we have, recorded on her computer), and it seems like her buddy - whatever his diving skills were - didn't pay much attention to her as a new diver or as a buddy until the ascent. Not sure why so many people in this thread automatically assume that the buddy was doing things perfectly and that the OP was so terrible.

Not at all. I believe every word she said. But I have filled in some of the things she did not say. And I don't mean to suggest for a minute that the buddy(s) did everything right. But I do tend to not get very excited over occasional short periods of a computer reporting ascent rate violations which is what I see occurred. Many computer do a notoriously bad job on that parameter. Perhaps the OP will clear up some of this possible confusion.

 

[doctormike]

Not at all. I believe every word she said. But I have filled in some of the things she did not say. And I don't mean to suggest for a minute that the buddy(s) did everything right. But I do tend to not get very excited over occasional short periods of a computer reporting ascent rate violations which is what I see occurred. Many computer do a notoriously bad job on that parameter. Perhaps the OP will clear up some of this possible confusion.

OK, it's just that "filling in" creates a narrative that we don't know to be true, and that colors the discussion. Again, the ascent rate violation could be benign (rapid arm movement) or it could be more serious. A rapid ascent during part of a dive can cause barotrauma or even promote bubble formation, even if the overall ascent time averages out to be OK.

But I agree, the OP posting her downloaded profile would be really useful here.

 

[redacted]

OK, it's just that "filling in" creates a narrative that we don't know to be true, and that colors the discussion. Again, the ascent rate violation could be benign (rapid arm movement) or it could be more serious. A rapid ascent during part of a dive can cause barotrauma or even promote bubble formation, even if the overall ascent time averages out to be OK.

But I agree, the OP posting her downloaded profile would be really useful here.

Are you assuming the ascent rate violations were the kind that went on for 10s of feet of ascent. Since she reported pulling her hand away each time (no reported struggle), I am not seeing them as serious. I am seeing a delay and difficulties starting an ascent, an abnormally slow ascent rate and a serious lack of situational awareness (total surprise by a diver coming up behind her). I suspect other divers may have just thought they would be kind when they got back on then boat. Yes, I am reading things into the report; but, as usual, we all seem to be doing that due to the incomplete information provided.

 

[doctormike]

Yes, I am reading things into the report; but, as usual, we all seem to be doing that due to the incomplete information provided.

True. We are all doing that, to some extent. But as I said before, this isn't a deposition or a court of law. This is a place where new divers can come for advice, and when our assumptions lead us to label her as a "crappy diver", a "20 dive wonder" with no skills, it kind of defeats the purpose of the basic scuba discussion forum.

 

[redacted]

True. We are all doing that, to some extent. But as I said before, this isn't a deposition or a court of law. This is a place where new divers can come for advice, and when our assumptions lead us to label her as a "crappy diver", a "20 dive wonder" with no skills, it kind of defeats the purpose of the basic scuba discussion forum.

Has anybody said those things? I believe she is a new diver, but has taken AOW, who has a bit of work to do on basic skills. I really don't believe telling her she did fine and the problem was entirely her buddies is going to help her much.

 

[doctormike]

Has anybody said those things? I believe she is a new diver, but has taken AOW, who has a bit of work to do on basic skills. I really don't believe telling her she did fine and the problem was entirely her buddies is going to help her much.

Yeah, I got them from the thread.

But you are right ... I don't mean to imply that she is beyond criticism. And you are also right that saying that the problem was entirely with her buddies isn't very useful either.

I guess my point is that the actual question that she asked wasn't about diving but more about dive etiquette. And without evidence that she was dying and needed saving (which I really don't see from the OP), I have to give her the benefit of the doubt about that one.

She obviously didn't do fine from a diving point of view, and I'm pretty sure that she knows that. I have been here long enough to know what an arrogant newbie sounds like, and she isn't it.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Yeah, I got them from the thread.

B without evidence that she was dying and needed saving (which I really don't see from the OP), I have to give her the benefit of the doubt about that one.

She obviously didn't do fine from a diving point of view, and I'm pretty sure that she knows that. I have been here long enough to know what an arrogant newbie sounds like, and she isn't it.

So you are supposed to wait until someone is dead before taking action? That seems just a bit late. Running through most of your gas in 17 minutes seems like a reasonable basis to start taking action. The Luna ascent rate guides are pretty reasonable but they should not be observed if you are going to run out of gas. Not running out of gas is number one on the risk list, ascent rate is far, far down the list.

 

[doctormike]

So you are supposed to wait until someone is dead before taking action? That seems just a bit late. Running through most of your gas in 17 minutes seems like a reasonable basis to start taking action. The Luna ascent rate guides are pretty reasonable but they should not be observed if you are going to run out of gas. Not running out of gas is number one on the risk list, ascent rate is far, far down the list.

C'mon, we have been through this upthread.

She left the bottom with 1100 PSI. She surfaced with 700 PSI.

And if you really felt the need to "take action" for your buddy, how about just ascending with them, asking them for an occasional pressure check, and being ready to donate a second stage? Seems that would be more of a standard procedure than pulling them up because you didn't like their SAC.

Yes, of course if you are actually running out of gas, you don't worry about ascent rate. But I'm not sure why you are bringing that up in this scenario.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Waiting until they run out of gas and embolize is too late. Her buddies had reason for concern. All of this really is a personal risk assessment. Going ten minutes into deco on single tank is fine by me, but clearly it sets off alarm bells for a lot of people, running out of gas is totally unacceptable. Someone with just a few deep dives needs to be very conservative on gas reserves. Do look at the risk of embolism, drowning and DCS and weigh your risk. Where does ascent rate fall in this? Likely off the charts.