Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

[doctormike]

And at this point.... I'm done with this thread...

Jim...

This seems to be an inaccurate statement.

 

[Manneca]

Wondering what the response would have been had the diver been male.

 

[boulderjohn]

The way I now break it down is this -
If the fill was 3200 on an AL80 at 77.4 cu ft = 82.56 cu feet of air to start which is what she said and she said she she ended around 626 - 726 psi with about a 17 min total run time.

So for the descent at 60 feet per min she used 5.7 cu feet or 176 psi for a 1.5 min descent time.
For the bottom time at 90 feet (3.73 ATA) she used 72.7 cu feet or 2257 psi for 13 min bottom time.
For the ascent at 60 feet per min she used 11.3 cu feet or 352 psi for a 3 min ascent time for a total of 17.5 run time.
That would leave 23 cu feet left at 715 psi for a total run time of 17.5 mins at 1.5 RMV.
If I understand where my math was incorrect - she actually had a 1.5 RMV for the entire time or it averaged out to 1.5 RMV for the overall dive.

All you need to know about her dive is the average depth (67 feet), the total time (17 minutes) and amount of air she used (2474), all of which she gave us. I converted the PSI used to cubic feet first (not my normal practice) by using the percentage of a standard fill that represents because I figured most readers would not know how to use the tank's baseline (0.026) for this. Once you know the number of cubic feet, you only have to divide by time (17) to get cubic feet per minute, then divide that by the number atmospheres (3).

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Wondering what the response would have been had the diver been male.

Had it been my son - I would be wondering why he was using so much gas - he and I normally go through about the same gas. I would have also dragged him up from 90 feet if he was burning gas that quickly - but I know him. However, since I would not have known this person I would have waited till they figured it out and would be watching them closely. I still have not figured out if I would let them intentionally run out of air if they did not want to ascend quickly enough - and be there when they do.

Either way if they run out of air - that would be it - then I take control and then we are done diving as a team. Next dive I get a new dive buddy.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Wondering what the response would have been had the diver been male.

Honestly, I would say much more brutal...[emoji6]

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[kr2y5]

Looking at this somewhat differently, what should dive buddies do when a dive is thumbed and a member of the team appears reluctant to ascend?

Great question... my thoughts:

1. In most areas of life, you can't make someone do something if they don't want to do it. An image of someone trying to drag their cat under the shower comes to mind. I'd also think that a smooth continuous ascent, even at a slower pace, is probably much more effective than an ascent that involves jerking someone, making their computer beep, and that person trying to resist and stop to stabilize their depth until all of the bars on their computer's ascent rate indicator disappear completely. With that said, the focus should be not on how to force or pressure someone to ascend, but how to motivate them.

2. First thing about motivating is, not to appear to be a threat. Obviously, physical contact doesn't help. But also, when someone is task loaded, and another person keeps poking them, and making what appears to be some chaotic movements, they will be perceived as an annoying distraction... same effect. What might go on in this person's mind: "Why do you keep bothering me? I heard you the first time. I'm busy, just **** off..." A better strategy would have been to first descend to their level, and calmly make eye contact.

3. Having descended creates an opportunity to actually understand the reason for someone's reluctance. It always helps to observe for a short while before trying to persuade. Are they in fact, not reluctant, but simply having buoyancy issues? Might have been hard to tell from 15 feet above, looking down...

4. With all that out of the way, how do we make someone want to ascend? Most people need a reason to feel motivated to do something differently. Maybe pointing to their SPG and indicating a "low on air" or "not OK" signal would have been enough? If you can successfully deliver the message, I think it'll mostly suffice... but you can't deliver any message if the other person isn't willing to listen, and the latter is usually your fault for being a bad communicator.

 

[Storker]

Looking at this somewhat differently, what should dive buddies do when a dive is thumbed and a member of the team appears reluctant to ascend?

If it's reluctance to ascend: Get another buddy for the next dive. If it's a real ascent, but slower than you'd prefer: have a civilized talk about it during the SI.



--
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Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

All you need to know about her dive is the average depth (67 feet)

I realize your doing this off the cuff or rounding but is (90+45)/2 the best way to come up with average depth? Honestly I use my computer for average depth - but I never really thought about it until now. My guess would have been higher than 67 feet given the time descending and ascending versus the bottom time. Is that a fairly standard approach to average depth?

 

[boulderjohn]

I realize your doing this off the cuff or rounding but is (90+45)/2 the best way to come up with average depth? Honestly I use my computer for average depth - but I never really thought about it until now. My guess would have been higher than 67 feet given the time descending and ascending versus the bottom time. Is that a fairly standard approach to average depth?

I know her average depth was 67 feet because she said so. She got it from her computer and posted it in this thread. (See my post #117.) No calculations on my part were involved. Otherwise, you are right--you would have no good way of knowing.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I think a lot of answers may become more apparent if the OP would be kind enough to post the dive profile from her computer.

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