Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

[azmodan50]

The diver also was sucking through her air tank with very ineffective breathing causing a possable carbon dioxide loading...

And to add to the people that say going up slow is not a problem... They need to do some reading on DECO and tissue loading...
Jim...

And from your own chart, at the depth she was at, "Unnoticeable minor symptoms, or no symptoms at all". And that doesn't change the fact that the symptoms are relieved by ascending.

And if she had a build up of carbon dioxide, she would have most likely started hyperventilating. There was no mention of this. Sucking through a tank does not mean your body is taking on too much carbon dioxide. New divers can easily suck down a tank and still exhale completely, meaning no build up of carbon dioxide.

As far as deco theory, it is just that. Theory. There is no proof for any of it and people are using an extreme to justify what her buddies were doing and saying. There is a reason that too slow of an ascent isn't spoke of in basic or advanced courses. Because it is only a problem in extreme situations that a rec diver would not be in. You have a better chance of running out of air on a slow ascent then you do of loading enough nitrogen to cause a problem.

---------- Post added April 29th, 2015 at 11:18 PM ----------

They may have reacted badly but with you failing to ascend,being low on air and then appearing to refuse to ascend I can see what they would be thinking.

Except that she was at 15ft and they were yanking her. Even if she did run out of air, she could have easily made it to the surface.

 

[boulderjohn]

As far as deco theory, it is just that. Theory. There is no proof for any of it and people are using an extreme to justify what her buddies were doing and saying.

Wow. You don't seem to understand the definition of theory.

There is a reason that too slow of an ascent isn't spoke of in basic or advanced courses. Because it is only a problem in extreme situations that a rec diver would not be in.

If it is not spoken of in basic or advanced courses the reason for it is incompetent instruction.

 

[oldschoolto]

And from your own chart, at the depth she was at, "Unnoticeable minor symptoms, or no symptoms at all". And that doesn't change the fact that the symptoms are relieved by ascending.

And if she had a build up of carbon dioxide, she would have most likely started hyperventilating. There was no mention of this. Sucking through a tank does not mean your body is taking on too much carbon dioxide. New divers can easily suck down a tank and still exhale completely, meaning no build up of carbon dioxide.

As far as deco theory, it is just that. Theory. There is no proof for any of it and people are using an extreme to justify what her buddies were doing and saying. There is a reason that too slow of an ascent isn't spoke of in basic or advanced courses. Because it is only a problem in extreme situations that a rec diver would not be in. You have a better chance of running out of air on a slow ascent then you do of loading enough nitrogen to cause a problem.

---------- Post added April 29th, 2015 at 11:18 PM ----------



Except that she was at 15ft and they were yanking her. Even if she did run out of air, she could have easily made it to the surface.

NO... She was at 90'.... So most of what happened was in the deeper end of the ascent... Fast breathing does not allow the exchange of CO2 that takes place in a normal breathing cycle .. And at this point.... I'm done with this thread...

Jim...

 

[Sliver]

To the OP (if you haven't already disappeared from the holier than thou nonsense): you did nothing wrong. Think about gas expansion vs depth and why not to dump ALL your BC before ascent. Let it out as you go. Buoyancy skills are perhaps the most important skill IMHO.

What is completely out of line is the fact that the offending grabby divers (words chosen carefully) did not have a light, friendly and no stress chat back on the boat as to why they behaved that way. It demonstrates complete arrogance and likely ignorance. If someone quotes years of experience and 'tech' without a calm discussion of how to improve, run away. Run fast...

Again, you likely experienced directionally challenged asses who are not what they claim to be.

Real experienced, competent divers will always explain their actions to a novice and try to help/educate.

Most posts seem to miss this point and are just talking minutia on a routine 90' dive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FinnMom]

The original poster should be careful what she wishes for. ...At least in this case she was paired with buddies that observed what was going on and took action when things appeared to be going badly. Far more common is buddies that are completely unaware.

From a risk management standpoint running out of gas and either drowning or having arterial gas embolism is far more likely than having DCS due to ascent rates. If you look at the DAN accident statistics DCS due to ascent rates will be nowhere to be found. Yes ascent rates are part of the DCS models, but not running out of gas is paramount. They appear to have had reason to be concerned. Good pre and post dive communication is usually the solution here. Just tell your buddies that they could have communicated differently, but appreciate that they were doing their part.

An instructor looked at the computer later and confirmed that she was ascending too fast. Maybe she had a Suunto, maybe set even to +1 conservative and these "tech boys" had less conservative computers.

Their actions were so cowboy I suspect they may have had no such pure motives for wanting to hurry her up. Arrogant types like that may have wanted to surface faster just to get a cold beer sooner. Or maybe the tech boys were too lazy to attach a condom and pee valve, found themselves in a hurry to get up and out of their suits, and now insist she was slow because they don't want to explain the real motive for their hurry.

 

[Kharon]

NO... She was at 90'.... So most of what happened was in the deeper end of the ascent...

And you were there - that's how you know this????? Because the OP indicates it occured throughout the ascent.

---------- Post added April 30th, 2015 at 10:35 AM ----------

My thinking is that your dive buddy would be panicking a bit that you were heading to a total out of air situation if you continued to ascend at the rate you were heading up at
...
They may have reacted badly but with you failing to ascend,being low on air and then appearing to refuse to ascend I can see what they would be thinking.

Seriously? She hit the surface with - "so when I surfaced I had between 626-726 psi ". That's not low on air IMO.

I have to admit that this thread has added significantly to my "Ignore" list.

 

[boulderjohn]

I would also like to preface this story with the fact that I used 2474 psi during the dive and started with about 3100-3200 so when I surfaced I had between 626-726 psi so I would have had time to take a slower ascent. In addition, my computer said the dive lasted for 17 minutes.

I really appreciate everyone's input. I would like to add that it was never mentioned on the surface that they were afraid I was running out of air. In fact, the additional diver said that I was just going too slow and at 90 feet (computer says avg of 67) for only 15 minutes a safety stop is unnecessary.

If the OP started at 3200 as she mentioned and ended at 744psi on an AL80 - with a 17.5 min total run time - assuming a normal ascent at 30 ft per min with no safety stop her RMV was 1.06.

This calculation was mentioned in the last quote first and then kept up throughout the thread by some other posters. I believe it is mistaken. She used 64 cubic feet of air in 17 minutes at an average depth of 67 feet--almost exactly 3 atmospheres. (I used 77.4 as the normal capacity of an AL 80--assume 80 cubic feet and she used 66 cubic feet.) 64/17/3=1.25. That might not seem like a big difference in terms of pure math, but in breathing during the dive, it is a lot. A diver with that RMV will use nearly 3 times as much gas to make an ascent and a safety stop as a more experienced diver with a RMV a tad below 0.5.

 

[oldschoolto]

They don't care about anything other then tell her she is right and the three other divers are a$$hats... They don't understand deco and narcosis... They don't understand gas loading and high breathing rates...

As long as this goes on... Crappy divers will keep being crappy divers...

Jim...

 

[redacted]

Looking at this somewhat differently, what should dive buddies do when a dive is thumbed and a member of the team appears reluctant to ascend?

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

This calculation was mentioned in the last quote first and then kept up throughout the thread by some other posters. I believe it is mistaken. She used 64 cubic feet of air in 17 minutes at an average depth of 67 feet--almost exactly 3 atmospheres. (I used 77.4 as the normal capacity of an AL 80--assume 80 cubic feet and she used 66 cubic feet.) 64/17/3=1.25. That might not seem like a big difference in terms of pure math, but in breathing during the dive, it is a lot. A diver with that RMV will use nearly 3 times as much gas to make an ascent and a safety stop as a more experienced diver with a RMV a tad below 0.5.

First you were correct that I was wrong - but now I think we were all low on her RMV.

The way I now break it down is this -
If the fill was 3200 on an AL80 at 77.4 cu ft = 82.56 cu feet of air to start which is what she said and she said she she ended around 626 - 726 psi with about a 17 min total run time.

So for the descent at 60 feet per min she used 5.7 cu feet or 176 psi for a 1.5 min descent time.
For the bottom time at 90 feet (3.73 ATA) she used 72.7 cu feet or 2257 psi for 13 min bottom time.
For the ascent at 60 feet per min she used 11.3 cu feet or 352 psi for a 3 min ascent time for a total of 17.5 run time.
That would leave 23 cu feet left at 715 psi for a total run time of 17.5 mins at 1.5 RMV.
If I understand where my math was incorrect - she actually had a 1.5 RMV for the entire time or it averaged out to 1.5 RMV for the overall dive.