Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

[Patoux01]

Waiting until they run out of gas and embolize is too late. Her buddies had reason for concern. All of this really is a personal risk assessment. Going ten minutes into deco on single tank is fine by me, but clearly it sets off alarm bells for a lot of people, running out of gas is totally unacceptable. Someone with just a few deep dives needs to be very conservative on gas reserves. Do look at the risk of embolism, drowning and DCS and weigh your risk. Where does ascent rate fall in this? Likely off the charts.

700psi is not OUT OF GAS. It is very far from out of gas. SHE decided to ascend at 1100 psi. I highly doubt there's any way to run out of gas on a 6 minutes ascent with that much gas...


Edit: And sorry to OP for those divers that seem to have no respect and/or manners... I can understand that on the tec board, but it's supposed to be flame-free here. I guess it all comes down to the first comment I made on this thread anyway...

 

[Iralub]

Sure, he could have taken out his slate and written "Why don't you stop blocking the mooring line and get out of the way of divers behind you." Do you really think that is the best way to handle such a situation?

It seems to me the OP is lacking in some basic skills and unaware of what is going on around her. No one tried to drag her to the surface. If that were the case, she would not have been able to simply pull her hand away.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit lost. Where are you getting the bit about the mooring line? There is nothing in OP account that suggests they were anywhere near a mooring line or needed to get out of the way of other divers. Why attribute a deficiency that there is no evidence for? But even if she was blocking some non existent mooring line, yes I do think that taking 30 seconds to write the message is a better way to handle the situation than harassing a new diver into a state of panic. I don't know that it's the best way to handle the situation, but it is better and less likely to get someone killed than what her buddy did.

My reading of OPs account is that, after she managed to get her hand away a couple of times, her buddy and the tech trainee did drag her up, resulting in the ascent rate violation , which personally I don't think is anywhere near as serious an issue as inducing panic in the OP. I'm therefore not sure that the conclusion that no one tried to drag her to the surface is consistent with the info we have.

I'm a reasonably inexperienced AOW certified diver (about 75 dives) and have found that, while many experienced divers are great, some are total @#$&-heads, with more ego than sense. And some have simply forgotten how scary diving can be for someone just starting out (especially if that person is not a very confident person). I'm not surprised that experienced divers may have behaved in the inappropriate manner described by OP.

 

[azmodan50]

No communications? No check to see if there is a problem? Just the fin wave? Would you glance back to update the last known location?

Well, from your post, you said if they wouldn't ascend. To me that says that you did have communication. And, if you are thumbing the dive, there has to be a reason. So, either you leave them or the dive doesn't get called. I mean, you can sit there and try to force them, but your reason for calling the dive still exists. Do you jeopardize your own safety for someone that doesn't care that there is a reason you are thumbing it?

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 09:31 AM ----------

---------- Post added April 30th, 2015 at 02:59 PM ----------
We started to ascend and at first I was having trouble going up because I had emptied all my air (found out I shouldn't do that later in the day) and was only ascending as fast as my computer told me too. He kept motioning for me to go faster but i listened to my computer. Because he kept motioning I started going up faster until my computer started beeping at me. So I slowed down within my computers range. He then grabbed my hand and started pulling me up. It really freaked my out because my computer beeped and said "ascent too fast". I pulled my hand out of his grasp. He then started gesturing for me to go faster and I kept pointing at my computer. He grabbed my hand 2-3 times more and I kept pulling my arm out of his grasp. By this time I am really freaking out because the other guy is starting to get close and keeps motioning for me to go faster. Finally they back off and I try to do a safety stop. Within about a minute they are motioning for me to come up. I then sense someone behind me and could feel him grabbing my gear because I felt a pull. After that it's hazy because I was so freaked out, but I remember that they did back off. But when they kept grabbing on to me I just went up because I was really panicking. My ears were killing me because I had not had a chance to clear them.


And No, the OP stated that she was doing her safety stop and they were still pulling her up.

If you were only the reading expert like dive expert you try to be.

You need to go back and read the post... I even copied and pasted it for you.... And I'm really done now.... DOOR....

Jim....

"Finally they back off and I try to do a safety stop. Within about a minute they are motioning for me to come up. I then sense someone behind me and could feel him grabbing my gear because I felt a pull."

I get that, but they were still grabbing at her during her safety stop.

---------- Post added May 1st, 2015 at 09:45 AM ----------

Waiting until they run out of gas and embolize is too late. Her buddies had reason for concern. All of this really is a personal risk assessment. Going ten minutes into deco on single tank is fine by me, but clearly it sets off alarm bells for a lot of people, running out of gas is totally unacceptable. Someone with just a few deep dives needs to be very conservative on gas reserves. Do look at the risk of embolism, drowning and DCS and weigh your risk. Where does ascent rate fall in this? Likely off the charts.

How would her running out of gas cause an embolism? And again, they were still harassing her at 15ft. Even if she did run out of air (which she was nowhere close to doing), a 15ft OOA is not a big deal.

 

[redacted]

BTW, has anybody looked at the Galileo Luna ascent rate methods? It is a function of the specific depth and quite conservative. For example, the recommended ascent rate at 75 feet is 33 ft/min. And warnings and alarms occur when the diver exceeds the recommended rate by 10% so an ascent rate of 37 ft/min at 75 feet may give reason to "freak out".

 

[Manneca]

I think a lot of answers may become more apparent if the OP would be kind enough to post the dive profile from her computer.

Sent via

If I were the OP, I'd have written off ScubaBoard and vowed never to return.

 

[nimoh]

If I were the OP, I'd have written off ScubaBoard and vowed never to return.

I agree, although I hope she just writes off this thread and not ScubaBoard entirely.

 

[BFRedrocks]

If I were the OP, I'd have written off ScubaBoard and vowed never to return.

I was thinking the same thing...I'm pretty sure that if she hasn't checked in a few days, she'll be pretty shocked to see the results of her post.

 

[Colo Hippie]

The replies in this thread are so sadly typical for SB.

 

[Frosty]

700psi is not OUT OF GAS. It is very far from out of gas. SHE decided to ascend at 1100 psi. I highly doubt there's any way to run out of gas on a 6 minutes ascent with that much gas...


Edit: And sorry to OP for those divers that seem to have no respect and/or manners... I can understand that on the tec board, but it's supposed to be flame-free here. I guess it all comes down to the first comment I made on this thread anyway...

Heres the rub--You and everyone else on the board here weren't there.The OP chowed through a LOT of air in a short time that fact is for certain.
How much longer would she have been in the water if left to her own devices? -No one knows the answer to that. maybe she would have been on the surface with 400bar left allowing slower ascent rate and a 3 minute stop.
I honestly cannot think of any reason an experienced diver would want to get back on a boat after just 17 minutes unless they had a really good reason to be concerned.-The whole logistics of getting out there then on the boat etc
Maybee Im naïve but by take on the situation is that the OP unwittingly scared the beejeebers out of the other divers and they thought she was going to get hurt one way or another.

 

[chrisch]

BTW, has anybody looked at the Galileo Luna ascent rate methods? It is a function of the specific depth and quite conservative. For example, the recommended ascent rate at 75 feet is 33 ft/min. And warnings and alarms occur when the diver exceeds the recommended rate by 10% so an ascent rate of 37 ft/min at 75 feet may give reason to "freak out".

It is a high end computer made by ScubaPro. I very much doubt that it is the issue. You can load the trimix algorithm onto the basic computer so it is designed for depth and decompression diving. If the computer was showing an ascent rate violation then it was ascending too fast. If the computer was recommending a safety stop then one should have been taken if it was safe and OK to do so.

Time and time again during this thread people have taken the opportunity to look for or invent reasons to find fault with the OP whilst at the same time finding reasons or inventing them to support the divers that were dragging her to the surface. We have no actual hard data as to the true ascent rate, nor any proof that the so called "experienced" divers were either experienced or indeed knowledgeable. There is a fixation on gas consumption - I do not recall at any point being told the capacity of the tank, all we have is the pressure figures. Again assumption on the part of the people that seem to want to make a point.

Surely the point of the basic discussions forum is for new divers to have the chance to review things just like this. To get feedback from a wide variety of sources and seek reassurance and constructive advice to help them improve. The title is "basic scuba discussions" not "find fault with me and ridicule me".

---------- Post added May 2nd, 2015 at 10:24 AM ----------

If I were the OP, I'd have written off ScubaBoard and vowed never to return.

Probably a wise decision.