BSA Sea Base 2008

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Hey Folks......
Yea I agree about the can of worms. That is why I put in the info on the BSA publication. I was advised that the orange book from BSA Corp is the bible. And about the internet stuff, I put the site where the orange book was copied faithfully as to text. I also have a little thought I learned a while ago about the content of the intenet. It is a good place for info, lots of really good info, but not a place to completely put your faith. So...... What do ya do. I guess I am going to err to the side of the information published in hard print from the BSA Corp. It has the guides that is followed by Sea Base for evaluation of Scuba folks listed in print. Regardless of which site you follow to get the hard facts, I can pretty much hang my hat on Capt. Steve & say with some certaincy....... the guides in the orange book will be followed. But I am in NO way boss & will follow the directions given to me by the powers in charge.
Then again I put on my instructor, old divers,beat up hat & say.... If you get in the least worried about the skills to be demonstrated you might wanna rethink your choices of adventure. Beside....The only thing I see folks do while diving at Sea Base is clear a mask once in a while & that is usually to clear the water put in the mask to clear the fog out so they can see the beauty. But then if they would have prepared the mask by cleaning thouroughly & using mask clear thay wouldn't be having a problem. I forgot.... thats on the list anyway & reimphasized by the Sea Base divemasters so THAT it doesn't happen too often anyway. Remember I stress & recommend a sacrificial tube of toothpaste to my crew leaders. And you know what? That works so I very seldom see mask fog problems anyway.
Then again..... I don't remember a lot of wrong things happening anyway. I think the diving side works extremely well because of the dedication of the Sea Base Scuba staff every year. And the dedication of the adult leaders to thier troops is beyond reproach. And the troops themselves. With all that goes on in such a hurry those first 2 days can be harrowing to say the least. But there never seems to be a problem. I have heard that the Sea Base diving operation is the biggest in the USA. I do believe that this statement is correct!!!! Then I think back to the problems that occur and remember that the VAST majority of them to be simple problems with a typical 2 second fix. And a lot of the fixes are handled by the Scout with the problem themselves, or the budddy they are diving with, or by the leader with them. Only occasionally am I approached with a need for assistance. Kinda looks like they are doing things in the correct way & order. This says a lot about the intial training they recieved. It says a lot about they way thier mind is working. It say alot about the leadership they have with them on a regular basis. I frankly feel a lot of times like I am along for the ride. Fine by me!!! Remember I live by the creed: Diving is a lazy man's sport! Then we get crews down there like yours, the Detroit (I think) crew, & the crew from the Houston area. These crews have instructors & divemasters within the troop leadership. Man, I gotta tell ya...... It don't get no better than that. All in all the whole shooting match works to the max!!! I wish I had a dime for everytime I heard someone that just finished up thier week with the comment: I am a better diver now than the diver I was when I got here! Says alot for Scouting, Sea Base, the Scouts, thier leadership, & the awesome Sea Base staff. Remember that the Sea Base Scuba Staff is virtually brand new each year.
Don't ya love a system that works.........?
This is fun!
YIS
Grady
 
My thoughts EXACTLY Mike, I did not respond last night cause I wanted to do some checking. Best I can tell is ths SFC version is one that Council modified to include those standards. I too reviewed the official one on the BSA National website and they don't match. I then searched other BSA councils to see if they had the GSS posted on their site and the ones that did, made no mention of these SCUBA Skills.

The Guide from the SFC does not make mention as to the time frame in which these skills must be demonstrated before hand.

It certainly looks like this modified GSS was adopted by the SFC and Seabase and indeed is not a National BSA policy as was earlier stated.

Furthermore, these rules as stated would prohibit scouts from earning the SCUBA BSA award. This version of the GSS states these skills must be evaluated before any SCUBA........... Many of these skill are not part of SCUBA BSA. In fact, unless I missed it, SCUBA BSA is not an option for the scouts in SFC, I see no mention of it. The BSA National's GSS specifically mentions SCUBA BSA. This is taken from the BSA Nationals GSS "The use of scuba is not authorized for a BSA unit, except so that registered Boy Scout youth and leaders may participate in the Scuba BSA program conducted by a certified dive instructor in compliance with this policy. Scuba BSA is not a diver certification program."

Question: How does Seabase handle a situation where a crew of 12 boys and 4 adults arrive. 8 boys are 14, the other 4 boys are over 15. Does seabase provide 4 other "buddies" over the age of 18 to dive with the boys that are less than 14. Also, there is no mention of demonstrating these skills under the "eligibility requirements" on the Seabase website All I saw as "eligibility requirements on the Seabase site under SCUBA are as follows: Eligibility Requirements


I also see that the "Guns and Firearm" rules don't match those of the GSS on the BSA National site.

OK, I just did some more checking while writing this.....I can't confirm it yet, so don't hold me to it, it appears that SFC may have a 1999 edition #34416B of the GSS and they may be following old rules. It appears that the current versions is actually item number #34416E (Just going from memory here on the part #) I'll be heading to the council office Thursday and I'll be sure to check the current copy.
 
Looks like the current GSS is 34416F I still need to confirm.

Using the old GSS could possibly pose a problem with the BSA's liability insurance if other things in the GSS are not performed as stated in the latest version of the GSS
 
My whole point in participating in this thead is to be sure we as a crew abide by the CURRENT Rules spelled out in the Guide to safe Scouting when we go diving or do outher Scouting activities. There are many things that have changed since that 1999 version.
 
Hi! The publication I have has an orange cover, soft cover, with an ISBN number listed in an earlier responce. The date in this particular publication states the year 2004. What ya think?
Grady
 
My guess is that SFC customized an OLDER version of the GSS for their use and didn't update each year's new GSS issued by BSA National (just my guess). Newer versions of the GSS state that Scuba BSA can be earned by ANY Boy Scout or Venture aged youth. Earlier versions of the GSS (pre-Scuba BSA) stated that youth had to be 14 to use any scuba.

I believe the BSA policy is pretty clear on scuba (minimal that they are). FSB also has its own scuba-related policies that go beyond what is stated in the GSS (e.g., depth limit of 50' on dives, scuba review done as part of the FSB program, etc). The Divemasters at FSB will certainly let you know what the current FSB policies are when you arrive. I discovered much of this when I was making arrangements to conduct PADI AOW certs during our Scuba Adventure trip this past summer. The only adventure dive that we couldn't do was the Deep Dive due to FSB's policy of no deeper than 50'. So we did all the others & did our deep dive locally after returning home.
Mike
 
I think I have to agree with you Mike. Old version that did not get updated. What concerns me is other areas did not get updated and those following the old version could actually be in some violation to the GSS or worse keeping youth from experiencing things they could be experiencing.

It appears as of now that SFC is following the 1999 publication rules. At the time they appear to have been National BSA policy, but not any longer. I would hope FSB would list the "check out" requirements on their "eligibility requirements" page as to not surprise anyone upon arrival.

I thought I read on the FSB site that depths were to a max of 60 feet. See 4th paragraph Scuba Adventure

So as of now, they do appear to indeed be isolated rules for FSB and their local council not BSA National Policy. I wonder why National changed that??

I hope the FSC allows all aged Boy Scouts the opportunity to try SCUBA and earn SCUBA BSA.


Thank you all



My guess is that SFC customized an OLDER version of the GSS for their use and didn't update each year's new GSS issued by BSA National (just my guess). Newer versions of the GSS state that Scuba BSA can be earned by ANY Boy Scout or Venture aged youth. Earlier versions of the GSS (pre-Scuba BSA) stated that youth had to be 14 to use any scuba.

I believe the BSA policy is pretty clear on scuba (minimal that they are). FSB also has its own scuba-related policies that go beyond what is stated in the GSS (e.g., depth limit of 50' on dives, scuba review done as part of the FSB program, etc). The Divemasters at FSB will certainly let you know what the current FSB policies are when you arrive. I discovered much of this when I was making arrangements to conduct PADI AOW certs during our Scuba Adventure trip this past summer. The only adventure dive that we couldn't do was the Deep Dive due to FSB's policy of no deeper than 50'. So we did all the others & did our deep dive locally after returning home.
Mike
 
I would hope FSB would list the "check out" requirements on their "eligibility requirements" page as to not surprise anyone upon arrival.

From the FSB Scuba Adventure page "The next day you will participate in a "scuba review" to familiarize yourself with the equipment you have been issued, and to check it for proper fit and function. Also, this is a great opportunity for you to refresh your diving skills in case it has been a while since you have been diving."

The "eligibility requirements" page lists scuba certification as the requirement. AFAIK, all the BSA-recognized certifying agencies teach the same core skills that are reviewed during the FSB scuba review (I posted the PADI Scuba Review skills previously).

In the National Capital Area Council, we have a very active High Adventure Committee that puts on training every spring designed for our units that are going to the BSA National High Adventure during the upcoming summer. We have breakouts for the various bases (and programs) where we have experienced advisors share their experiences and tips. That is where we pass along this type of info.
 
Hey! I will attest to the preparedness of the crews that Mike brings down. They always seem to be ready in all ways for the trip to Scuba world! It makes it nice when prepared crews show up. As I have said SO many times before.... I am the world's laziest diver & subscribe diligently to the OLD ADAGE: Diving is a lazy man's sport!!! I also believe the old divers saying: There are old divers & There are bold divers..... BUT there are no old, bold divers!
There is a crew from the Detroit area that ends up at Sea Base every year it seems & they are ready at all times for the trip. I have also had the extreme pleasure of diving with a crew from the Houston area. Two of the leaders, a husband & wife team, are NAUI instructors. This crew was a wonderful treat to lead. This also proves the point that there are folks out there, other than PADI divers, that show a dedication to the sport. There are NO bad certifying agencies, just a rare few marginal dive professionals.
Anyway, as BSA says... A scout is always prepared! AND it is my experience that this hold true. I have had a few crews that were not what I consider to be up to snuff as far as being ready for a diving adventure. But the enthusiasm of these crews to be led & taught the correct way is there & they pick up the correct ways from me, the other great divemasters at Sea Base, & the other Scouts around them & I can promise you they are well up to snuff at the end of thier trip. And best yet... They will always be ready for the susequent trips they make. A Scout learns!!!
Oh Well..... I guess you could blame all this on the Scouting way! It works!
YIS
Grady
 
HI Guys,

I did check out the GSS at thd Council office last Thursday. The current version has a white cover with black printing. It is consistant with the version on the BSA National website. I does indeed look like SFC has a old version posted.

A suggestion so its very clear to everyone attending Seabase SCUBA, it would not be that difficult to list the skills that will be required to be demonstrated upon arrival. It may just be me, but "the opportunity to" kinda sounds like it is optional.

Thanks for the great work for the Scouts at Seabase.
 

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