Breath-Holding Advice for U/W Swimming

[JimQPublic]

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Interesting that you do a flutter kick... I thought I was the only one! I incorporate arms as well though.
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That was just spontaneous. I had my hands out in front and thought that would be more efficient. After looking at the video posted in this thread the frog/breast stroke looks better.

Not that I care. I picked up my new Riffe fins over the weekend and I -presume- that I'll swim like a fish now. The blades are a good three feet long. All I've used before were very cheap, old, ill fitting regular fins.

The PFI Freedive class I'm taking next week has a prerequisite of 25m underwater dynamic- but I don't know if they mean with or without fins.

Jim

 

[ZAquaman]

OK, I'm not going to get into the hyperventilation debate other than to say "I don't do it". But, breathing may be one of the most important parts of breath hold diving.
I use what I call clensing breaths which are slow very deep complete inhalations and more importantly complete exhalations. This helps purge the CO2 from the "bottom" of my lungs as well as helping me focus and relax.

The number 1 thing you can do to extend your underwater distance is not breath hold but your swimming style. Take a look at how a world record holder does it...

http://www.planetfreedive.dk/World Record 166 meter 256kbWM9.wmv

 

[ocrmaster]

Marlinspike

Imagine if Vayu statement was true. All the professional free divers would be dead.

Since they all use this method before doing a long descent.

Vayu, even if you hyperventilate, you will feel the urge to exhale. If you read what I posted I told her to exhale if she need to and not to hold it in.

 

[ZAquaman]

Ocrmaster, I'm curious as to why you say it's a good idea to exhale? I've noticed that some of my anxiety goes away at the end of a dry static breath hold when I begin to exhale. I can even push through a few more seconds before I inhale. But I never exhale while underwater, I don't want to loose boyancy for one reason... I understand that exhaling while underwater is grounds for disqualification on wet static record attempts?

 

[Nay]

Zaquaman,
Thank you so much for that video. That was great to watch and seems like a really efficient movement, getting the most thrust with the least drag.
Can't wait to try it.
thank you

 

[annasea]

<snip>

The number 1 thing you can do to extend your underwater distance is not breath hold but your swimming style. Take a look at how a world record holder does it...

http://www.planetfreedive.dk/World Record 166 meter 256kbWM9.wmv

Thx for the clip, ZAquaman! But if I could swim like that, I wouldn't have needed to post this thread! LOL! (I simply can't frog kick at this time.)

One thing I found interesting about that video is where the swimmer places himself in the water -- he's midway. In order for me to not bob to the surface after about a metre or so, I need to be right down at the bottom. I never touch it with my toes but I do feel my fingertips graze it every now and then.

My concern with this is my instructor's pool has a deep end that I'll need to venture into in order to complete my 20M, and once I get past 5 ft, I'll probably need to equalize my ears. One more thing to worry about! :-(

 

[lowwall]

Twenty years after leaving competitive swimming, I can still easily do 25 yards underwater. When I'm going for a maximum underwater swim, here's what I do.

- Start out rested, if you've been swimming laps, take 3-5 minutes to get your HR down.

- Take 10-20 large, deep breaths before you start. You want to fully and forcefully inhale and exhale. I know I'm ready to go when feel a slight tingling in my little fingers. For the first 10 meters or so, it actually feels good not to have to breathe. (Maybe the freedivers can tell us if this is safe.)

- Get a good push off the wall and concentrate on a streamlined glide. Really stretch your hands out in front of you.

- When you feel yourself slowing down, do a breaststroke pull all the way until your hands are at the sides of your hips. Again concentrate on the glide.

- When you feel yourself slowing down, start the breastroke kick. Bring your arms forward at the beginning of the kick so you can really stretch out again for the glide.

- Repeat the previous two steps until you get to the end.

- When you feel the need to breathe, start slowly exhaling. This could give you another 10-15 seconds of swimming time.

Swimming like this minimizes both drag and exertion. Since every beat of your heart is going to extract a little oxygen, it makes sense to spend as much time gliding (i.e., not swimming) as possible. Flutter kicking is probably taking a noticeable chunk of your meters away.

FWIW, my best was 67 yards (two lengths of a 100' pool).

 

[Vayu]

Actually, excessive hyperventilation is a known factor contributing to latent hypoxia or shallow water blackout. Look it up.

I realize the technique is used by many freedivers. From what I hear, even navy divers use moderate hyperventilation to extend their dives. I havn't verified it though.

Regardless, the facts are the same. Hyperventilation extends bottom time while freediving because it purges C02 and not because it saturates the body with 02. In fact, hyperventilating can rob the body of 02.

What does this mean for your average freediver with limited training? It means that by hyperventilating excessively they will in fact lower their 02 AND C02. The body will still have the breathing reflex but only when it is dangerously low on 02. Depending on the individual, the breathing reflex may only be mild before consciousness is lost. Most victims of shallow water blackout do not even feel that they are gonna pass out.

Maybe a physician can comment here. I hold to the stance that it is not a safe practice and definately should not be utilized by beginners to extend bottom time. It is even more dangerous for intermediate level and advanced freedivers because of the extended depth and bottom times. It is hardly needed for a distance of 20M.

You should not be advising this practice at all especially on the internet where people with a lack of training will go and get themselves killed trying this stunt.

Vayu, even if you hyperventilate, you will feel the urge to exhale. If you read what I posted I told her to exhale if she need to and not to hold it in.

Exhaling is another method of purging C02 and can extend bottom time. Unfortunately exhaling will not prevent shallow water blackout since all it is doing is getting rid of C02. It is the lack of 02 that makes a diver pass out not the buildup of C02. It would be convenient if the human body had a warning signal for lack of 02 and not for excessive C02. Just like it would be convenient if the body had a warning mechanism before lung overexpansion injuries. Too bad the human body does not and we have to think about these things a little more closely before trying them or advising others to do so.

 

[OceanObsessed]

Annasea,

Sounds like you are getting alot of good advice here .

I will throw in my two cents worth. This may not apply to your situation but I thought I would mention it just in case your OW course is right after lunch, dinner, etc. My free diving buddies and I have found that we are much better breath holders on an empty stomach. After a meal my breath holding ability is probably at best 50% of what it was before eating. This can last for an hour or two until your food is completely digested. On diving days we typically eat a very light breakfast (I sometimes skip it all together) and by the time we get on the water it has digested.

Alternatively, if I am feeling competetive I will offer my dive buddy all the food he can eat before heading to the reef :evil:

-Chris

 

[TSandM]

Hyperventilation extends bottom time while freediving because it purges C02 and not because it saturates the body with 02.

This is correct. However, the only way that hyperventilating would LOWER the arterial pO2 would be if the breathing became sufficiently rapid and shallow that you were only exchange dead space air (or that dead space air became a substantial proportion of what you were exchanging). Multiple, rapid, deep breaths will not lower pO2. But they won't raise it significantly, either. You can't "stockpile" oxygen.

We actually DO have a hypoxic drive to breathe. It's just far weaker than the CO2-generated one. In people with chronic lung disease who CAN'T blow off their CO2, the hypoxic drive is what keeps them alive. In fact, ironically, putting oxygen on someone with emphysema can kill them, if you raise the pO2 high enough that they stop breathing. Unfortunately, the acute fall in pO2 while breath-holding, in a person with normal lung function who has not adapted to abnormal blood gas levels, occurs too quickly for the weak hypoxic drive to do anything useful. This is the etiology of shallow water blackout, or breath holding until unconsciousness.

So the bottom line is that Vayu is right -- flushing too much CO2 out of the blood before breath-holding can set you up to lose consciousness before you feel the need to breathe. On land, that's a two year old's tantrum; in the water, whether just swimming or diving, that's a recipe for disaster.