Breath-Holding Advice for U/W Swimming

[annasea]

Well, well, well.. Miss Annasea....

First off, what kind of cardio training are you doing??? ANything in the gym???

I must admit I'm doing nothing special in regards to cardio training. I'm an upper chest breather by habit (although I'm slowly trying to correct this), so anything cardio has always been a chore for me.

Part of my training involves doing dynamic apnea laps - I swim 25 yds at surface, 25 yards underwater - the surface swim back to the other end is the only rest - this is done continuously for about 25-30 minutes- I usually do 16-20 sets of that in addition to 400 yards of regular swimming. At times, I also do elliptical machine cardio training where every 2 minutes, I do apnea for 15-20 seconds with my heart rate elevated - for between 40-45 minutes...

You feel like you're going to lose all control, but it develops CO2 and lactic acid tolerence...

Hell, if I could do this, I wouldn't have needed to start this thread!

Also - I do the following to develop rib cage flexability: Sit in a semi-lotus position - wearing very loose fitting shorts and shirt (I wear just shorts). while listening to meditative type music, I begin slow deep breathing for a few minutes - then take a deep breath, hold it and then extend my arms together over my head - this begins the stretching of the intercostal muscles in the rib cage. hold for a few seconds and then release the breath slowly. Take several more slow deep breaths and repeat - except bend at the waist to one side slowly with the outside arm extended over your head in the direction of the bend. Thisx will stretch the outside rib cage. Come back up slowly while exhaling. Repeat to the other side. You will find your heart rate will increase at first then will slow down.. this is normal.. it is a pseudo MDR kicking in... lastly, do a empty lung hold until you can't hold it any longer. That is one set. I try to do 2-3 sets of that 3-4 times a week.

This looks interesting so I'll give it a try, especially the empty lung hold. Whenever I practice breath-holding in a stationery position, I've always done so with full lungs.

The urge to breathe is a state of mind. Usually the first urge isn't when you need to breathe - those who do not receive proper instruction on that become frustrated like you are. Doing these dry land exercises will teach you about what that urge to breathe feels like. By knowing that, you will become more aware of your own bodily processes, and it will teach you more about what you are capable of doing apnea wise.

My instructor-to-be says the same thing regarding the urge to breathe. I'll give your suggestions a try and see what I come up with.

BTW - speedo, eh? (cerebral visuals kicking in now..)

Yeppers! No padding, no underwire, and I still look great!

how are ya???

PM sent.

 

[5ata]

Give my current post a look see and if you need any additional training tips, either post here or email me.. Good to see ya after so long..

 

[Marlinspike]

I must admit I'm doing nothing special in regards to cardio training. I'm an upper chest breather by habit (although I'm slowly trying to correct this), so anything cardio has always been a chore for me.

Cardio will help a great deal. I agree with ATA except that all the breathing excercises in the world arent going to replace physical capacity. It sounds like your biggest weakness is physical with a great deal of mental block. You have received great advice here on breathing and relaxing, but you need to get into the gym and do cardio work. Start slow if you have to and it will help you tremendously. Get a personal trainer for a month if you can, and not the ones at Gold's Gym - get somebody with a formal education in sports conditioning.

~Marlinspike

 

[5ata]

Cardio will help a great deal. I agree with ATA except that all the breathing excercises in the world arent going to replace physical capacity. It sounds like your biggest weakness is physical with a great deal of mental block. You have received great advice here on breathing and relaxing, but you need to get into the gym and do cardio work. Start slow if you have to and it will help you tremendously. Get a personal trainer for a month if you can, and not the ones at Gold's Gym - get somebody with a formal education in sports conditioning.

~Marlinspike

annasea and I IM'd last night and it was determined she does need more cardio work. But I do think that some of her challenges are related to mental stress due to other circumstances - the ideal situation would be to do both cardio and yoga. The number of so called "Instructors" in scuba never ceases to amaze me... :jpshakehe

 

[JimQPublic]

My "beginner" status may be helpful here in that I can definitely empathise. The urge to breathe is very strong. If I try to hold my breath 30 seconds seems an eternity. But I can push on and eke out a full minute. After two minutes of rest I can then do 1:30. After that 2:30. It seems impossible for me to jump right into a long hold, but by building up- increasing 30 to 60 seconds each time I've gotten up to 3:45 dry in just a couple weeks time.

I've been doing dry dynamics too. Basically walking while holding my breath. My goal right now is to walk a block without breathing and what I've learned is that it's very different from the statics. But each time I try I get a little farther. Now I think I'm getting past the mental block because at first it was always the overwhelming urge to breathe that finally won out. The last few times though I kept going past that and only gave in as my legs were burning and I started to find my mind getting light headed/tunnel vision.

Swimming was similar. Just getting down to the bottom of the 4 foot deep pool and I was fighting for breath after what, 10 seconds? But a few tries and I could make it the length (20 meters) without even pushing off to start. (plus doing legs only- flutter kick).

I guess my advice boils down to a good warmup and lots of practice. Knowing I can hold my breath for over three minutes and getting past the initial urge to breathe helped me to be more confident doing dry dynamics. The dry dynamics (and the 180m world record) helped me to believe that I can do 20 meters in the pool.

Hope this helps a tiny bit.

 

[Nay]

I am SO happy that I found this thread. I'm working on the same thing. I need to do a 25m UW breathhold for the AAUS scientific diver qualification. I'm over thinking this so much that when I found out the pool at the Y where I've been training is actually 25Y and not meters, I nearly had a heart attack. 7.5 more feet!

I can make it somewhere between 2/3 & 3/4 of the way before surfacing. I'm sure I could get a little farther if I just concentrated on "one more stroke" but it's so frustrating when "one more stroke" still isn't going to get me to the end of the stupid pool!

I do my best to calm myself down and breathe deeply before pushing off. The first few pulls I'm totally calm but when I feel the urge to breathe I start too loose the calm and focus.

I don't know if I'm swimming as efficiently as I can, I'm doing a frog kick and pulling with my arms as well but it's hard to find that balance between energy conservation and forward momentum.

I think the part I have a really hard time with is after my first attempt my heart rate is elevated enough that each subsequent attempt isn't as good.

My cardio is OK, it's getting better but just isn't great. I did a lung function test last year and only got 86%. 85% is passing. My little brother with asthma has a better score. So I know that there is some physical limitation as well but I'm sure it's mostly mental. The hard part is finding the right tools to get past the mental.

I'll try what's mentioned here on Wednesday night when I hit the pool and let you know how it goes. Any more trick to try would be great.

thanks

 

[annasea]

<snip>
I've been doing dry dynamics too. Basically walking while holding my breath. My goal right now is to walk a block without breathing and what I've learned is that it's very different from the statics. But each time I try I get a little farther. Now I think I'm getting past the mental block because at first it was always the overwhelming urge to breathe that finally won out. The last few times though I kept going past that and only gave in as my legs were burning and I started to find my mind getting light headed/tunnel vision.

I totally agree with you on the statics, Jim! I'm not as advanced as you but I can sit up in bed and hold my breath for over a minute with no problem. But once motion is added -- totally different story! So last night, I started doing a brisk march in place (my apartment is too small to walk around), working both arms and legs, and I made it to about 35 seconds. I think this is longer than I can hold my breath while in the water.

Swimming was similar. Just getting down to the bottom of the 4 foot deep pool and I was fighting for breath after what, 10 seconds? But a few tries and I could make it the length (20 meters) without even pushing off to start. (plus doing legs only- flutter kick).

Interesting that you do a flutter kick... I thought I was the only one! I incorporate arms as well though.

I guess my advice boils down to a good warmup and lots of practice. Knowing I can hold my breath for over three minutes and getting past the initial urge to breathe helped me to be more confident doing dry dynamics. The dry dynamics (and the 180m world record) helped me to believe that I can do 20 meters in the pool.

Hope this helps a tiny bit.

Thx for sharing your experience! It has helped.

 

[annasea]

I am SO happy that I found this thread. I'm working on the same thing. I need to do a 25m UW breathhold for the AAUS scientific diver qualification. I'm over thinking this so much that when I found out the pool at the Y where I've been training is actually 25Y and not meters, I nearly had a heart attack. 7.5 more feet!

Well then, I'm even happier that I started it! I understand your frustration, Nay. Originally, I was set to take YMCA's OW course which only required 15M (which I can do), but now I'll be doing NAUI's OW, and my instructor requires 20M. Ugh!

<snip>

I don't know if I'm swimming as efficiently as I can, I'm doing a frog kick and pulling with my arms as well but it's hard to find that balance between energy conservation and forward momentum.

Sounds more efficient than what I'm doing. You'll get there!

I think the part I have a really hard time with is after my first attempt my heart rate is elevated enough that each subsequent attempt isn't as good.

Same here. I find I need to take at least a 3-5 minute break between attempts. Although, in all honesty, the 3rd try is usually best for me. The first one, my energy may be high but I'm anxious since it's the first attempt. By the third one, with enough rest in between, I'm more calm.

My cardio is OK, it's getting better but just isn't great. I did a lung function test last year and only got 86%. 85% is passing. My little brother with asthma has a better score. So I know that there is some physical limitation as well but I'm sure it's mostly mental. The hard part is finding the right tools to get past the mental.

I've never heard of a lung function test. Thx for mentioning this! I'll look into it since I reckon I'd probably *fail* as well.

I'll try what's mentioned here on Wednesday night when I hit the pool and let you know how it goes. Any more trick to try would be great.

Well, since I'm one of the ones looking for advice, I probably shouldn't be giving any, but here's what I experimented with yesterday and found to be helpful...

If I close my eyes, it's easier to focus my thoughts on something other than what I'm actually doing. By doing this, I'm not so anxious about the passage of time, and therefore, can hold my breath longer.

Best of luck to you, Nay! Please keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Vayu]

Before you go for the 20M swim do hyper ventilation also know as bubbles several times.

That will saturate your lungs with O2. And Push off from the wall with all your might.

Ever heard of shallow water blackout? The method listed above will probably give you hands on experience with it.

Hyperventilating does not saturate the lungs with 02. It flushes out C02 and thereby delays the urge to breath. You will not feel anything, pass out, and then die.

Good luck with your breath hold but please do it while taking a deep breath instead of multiple shallow ones.

As others have said the best way to do it is to kick and glide in a slow and controlled breast stroke.

 

[Marlinspike]

Ever heard of shallow water blackout? The method listed above will probably give you hands on experience with it.

Hyperventilating does not saturate the lungs with 02. It flushes out C02 and thereby delays the urge to breath. You will not feel anything, pass out, and then die.

Good luck with your breath hold but please do it while taking a deep breath instead of multiple shallow ones.

As others have said the best way to do it is to kick and glide in a slow and controlled breast stroke.

Hyperventilating is a well established practice for long breath hold dives. Get a clue.

~Marlinspike