Breaking news from the whale wars

[DennisS]

Nah, just let them ram your boat, throw crap on your boat, foul your propellors, after all, they are in the right and can do no wrong because they have a cause. If they injure you or themselves, don't get upset, they are doing it because they have a cause they believe in.

If a tree spiker injures a father of three, a lumber mill worker, to the point where he can't work, don't worry, it was for a good cause.

 

[DCBC]

Nah, just let them ram your boat, throw crap on your boat, foul your propellors, after all, they are in the right and can do no wrong because they have a cause. If they injure you or themselves, don't get upset, they are doing it because they have a cause they believe in.

If a tree spiker injures a father of three, a lumber mill worker, to the point where he can't work, don't worry, it was for a good cause.

Kill em all, let God sort em out!

 

[Texas Torpedo]

When have the Sea Shepherds tried to sink a Japanese Whaler?

When have the Sea Shepherds used deadly force against the Japanese Whalers?

I guess that depends on whether or not you think utilizing large vessels to ram other ships constitutes deadly force. I certainly do.

 

[OldNSalty]

Definitely! I'm afraid that there are people on SB that would feel justified in just going over to the vessel, pull out a shotgun and start blowing them away!

That's what they deserved isn't it? They deserve to die. The nerve of them to disturb our diving plans; we wanted to make a day of it! That will teach them!

I appreciate your sarcasm. I think the difference here is how you interpret the threat posed by the SS. I am not a CPT so maybe I am confused on the law on this point. Clearly if I were out fishing and some folks came up in there jet skis and were running too close to my boat, cutting my line, calling me names, I would not use deadly force. If this group were conducting themselves in such a way that I felt they were trying to damage my boat and thereby putting myself and crew at risk, or trying to board or trying to attack then I am going to respond differently.

Not holding a CPT’s license I do not know where that threshold is in this case and I will not pretend to. I think that is part of the problem, lawmen and professionals are looking at this and reaching very different conclusions perhaps because of a misunderstanding of the law and how it applies.

I also think there is some assumption that the whalers act was deliberate. At this point, we don’t know.

 

[ScubaSteve]

We agree. Because SS did not move out of the way, makes them foolish. It doesn't however, relieve the Whaler Skipper of his legal responsibility, nor does it allow him to commit a criminal act.

Agreed

Glad to hear you have the common sense not to use deadly force. I agree it would have been extremely enticing to do what the Whaler Skipper did (like when I punched the guy in the head on my earlier post), but I was wrong to do so and so was the Skipper. You just can't use physical force because you're ticked-off and not expect to pay the penalty. Lesson learned.

"Deadly" force? Nope. "Foot up ass as far the knee" force? YUP. There was a lesson in there? I think I failed

 

[DCBC]

I guess that depends on whether or not you think utilizing large vessels to ram other ships constitutes deadly force. I certainly do.

I totally agree. Each of these situations should be treated independently. The Master(s) involved should be brought to justice.

It is useful to note that the crews of these incidents and the collision under discussion are not related. There is nothing to indicate that the Master of the SS vessel in this instance was ever involved in ramming anyone.

I'm pleased that you agree that utilizing large vessels to ram other ships constitutes deadly force. It's even more "deadly" when it's a larger vessel rams a smaller one and damage is so severe that it causes the vessel to sink. Antarctic waters don't support human life for long...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

When two similar sized metal ships go "clink" It is hard for me to say it is deadly force. Jimmy Johnson and Jeff Gordon make more dangerous contact with each other monthly, and they are on the same team. In the case of the life endangering ramming of the Ady Gil is easy for me to say it constitutes deadly force.

In many peoples eyes, and evidently many regulating bodies, the ramming of the Ady Gil is the first human life endangerment in this conflict. If I had anything of pressing importance on my schedule, like seeing Avatar in a 3-D theatre, I would not be having so much fun exchanging banalities with posers who seem intent on twisting reality into more than it is.

The vast majority of the world, countries and people are not happy with the way the Japanese act with regards to the sham of research whaling. It is plain to see for anybody with historical eyes that this is pretty much the only issue the Japanese have found since the mid '40's where they get away with defying anybody.

Japan's Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada is on recent record saying ""We have a tradition here in Japan of eating whale meat," "We do not think there is a need for a policy review at this point in time," "I think the average Japanese would like to continue consuming whale meat into the future." I seriously doubt SS would be harassing a non sham research labeled non reproductive aged adult Minke whale harvest in Japan's territorial waters for the actual consumption demand of the average Japanese.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

I totally agree. Each of these situations should be treated independently. The Master(s) involved should be brought to justice.

You may chose to treat them independently, but I do not, and I don't believe a court of law or inquest would either. You are trying to prove a point under a microscope but that's not how this will play out should it be litigated. Previous and continuing criminal activity / related conduct would be considered.

It is useful to note that the crews of these incidents and the collision under discussion are not related. There is nothing to indicate that the Master of the SS vessel in this instance was ever involved in ramming anyone.

That is irrelevant. You have an organization (Sea Shepard) who proudly announces (and documents) their harassment and ramming of other ocean going vessels, without provocation. Not approving or even hating whalers is not provocation. It is clearly outlined in their manifesto and will be considered in any investigation or litigation that takes place. Simply put, if they were not out there harassing other ships like little pirates and saboteurs, no collision could have taken place.

I'm pleased that you agree that utilizing large vessels to ram other ships constitutes deadly force.
It's even more "deadly" when it's a larger vessel rams a smaller one and damage is so severe that it causes the vessel to sink. Antarctic waters don't support human life for long...

That's right, Antarctic waters are very dangerous, and the attempt by the Ady to foul the props (etc), is putting lives at risk and thus prompting to ships captains to take action - defensive or offensive. They wanted to play the game.. They put their lives at risk and its on them.

Personally, I think this "crash" was planned in advance by SS for publicity purposes. I think the Ady throttling up just before impact proves that even if the ship had previously turned towards them.

They could have spent 3 times the value of the Ady and not gotten 1/4 of the exposure this event has generated, so either way, I'm sure Paul Watson is clearly pleased no matter how much feigned outrage he professes.

 

[DCBC]

Previous and continuing criminal activity / related conduct would be considered.

Yes, but only if said conduct is directly involved with the accused. You are tried on your actions and not the actions of another.

Simply put, if they were not out there harassing other ships like little pirates and saboteurs, no collision could have taken place.

Yes, if the Banker never got out of bed to open the bank, the robbery couldn't have taken place. It's the Banker's fault! NOT.

That's right, Antarctic waters do not, and the attempt by the Ady to foul the props (etc), is putting lives at risk and thus prompting to ships captains to take action - defensive or offensive. They wanted to play the game.. They put their lives at risk and its on them.

It doesn't work that way. You best talk with a lawyer.

Personally, I think this "crash" was planned in advance by SS for publicity purposes. I think the Ady throttling up just before impact proves that even if the ship hard previously turned towards them.

Yes, the SS crew used their mental powers to cause the Whaler Captain to change course and drive his vessel into them so they might all get killed.

They could have spent 3 times the value of the Ady and not gotten 1/4 of the exposure this event has generated, so either way, I'm sure Paul Watson is clearly pleased no matter how much feigned outrage he professes.

I unlike you do not have the power to say what's in the mind of another person, so I don't know what Paul Watson thinks, nor do I care.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

(Yawn)

Time will tell..