Wookie
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Brad Horn on the rEvo
- Thread starter Brad_Horn
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Wookie
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If the oxygen cells on the Optima are flooded with water, you won't be breathing the unit.
I recently had an issue diving my Optima where the DSV was ripped from my mouth and then I subsequently submerged and came back to the surface on my bailout reg. Obviously the loop was flooded, right? Not so much. The exhale side of the head was flooded and there was water in the cartridge, but when I removed the inhale side of the head, no water besides the normal amount of loop condensation. A few drops at best.
The design of the Optima should show even the most uneducated individual out there that it would be impossible to flood the inhalation side of the scrubber and continue breathing on the unit. It's just not physically possible. In my experience on the unit, even a small amount of water in the loop hoses is impossible to ignore, and for enough to get to the point that it would be blocking the oxygen sensors would require suspension of the laws of physics.
I recently had an issue diving my Optima where the DSV was ripped from my mouth and then I subsequently submerged and came back to the surface on my bailout reg. Obviously the loop was flooded, right? Not so much. The exhale side of the head was flooded and there was water in the cartridge, but when I removed the inhale side of the head, no water besides the normal amount of loop condensation. A few drops at best.
The design of the Optima should show even the most uneducated individual out there that it would be impossible to flood the inhalation side of the scrubber and continue breathing on the unit. It's just not physically possible. In my experience on the unit, even a small amount of water in the loop hoses is impossible to ignore, and for enough to get to the point that it would be blocking the oxygen sensors would require suspension of the laws of physics.
Thanks! That's case number 2012-CA-013132. It looks like there's video and audio recordings of the case available instead of simple transcripts! Hopefully they won't be super expensive to order, I'll find out.
Summary
In this wrongful death action, plaintiff Terri Skiles claims Lamartek Inc. is liable for the death of well-known underwater cinematographer and cave diver Wesley Skiles, whose 2010 death during a dive was allegedly caused by a faulty breathing apparatus.
Outcome
Verdict for the defense
Mr. Horn, a few questions for you.
1. Do you manufacture rebreathers for profit?
2. Would you consider rEvo Rebreathers to be a competitor to you in this market?
3. Do you present hypothetical situations with regards to diving accidents?
4. How many rEvo rebreather deaths are you aware of? (Your database lists 7, it would be 8 including Stewart)
5. How does this compare with every other rebreather manufacturer when adjusted proportionally to number of units in the public?
6. How many of these deaths were deemed, by a party other than yourself, to have a common cause?
7. Of these 7 other fatalities, how many had official investigation outcomes that provided a specific cause?
8. How does this compare with every other rebreather fatality in the database?
9. You repeatedly make claims that rEvo has certain negative features as a result of "cost cutting." This is especially prevalent with regards to BOV's. Do you believe that a rebreather manufacturer who actually purchased their own incredibly expensive testing machinery would refuse to put a BOV on a rebreather to "cut costs."
(Side note, i've visited rEvo HQ personally and seen BOV's being tested on the rEvo. Paul had made it publicly clear that his adversity to BOVs stems from their poor breathing performance. Agree or disagree but he has been actively testing BOVs for years as a viable option available)
10. Do you make money from providing advice to prosecution in law suits pertaining to rebreather fatalities?
I'll tell you what I see. I see the guy from
To Brad Horn and the OR Guys
Here's another one of Dr. Simon Mitchell and everyone else talking about Mr. Horn...
http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183114&s=0b2b2aafe23993132002f92b3e3b4557
Here's another fun one...
1000 bucks if AD/Brad Horn Show at DEMA 2014
I see the guy who repeatedly makes wild and libelous accusations about other rebreather manufacturers, based upon no first hand knowledge. Who takes every opportunity they get to create sensational and hypothetical stories about other rebreather manufacturers while simultaneously interjecting how their glorious, yet never released, rebreather would have prevented every one of them.
You Sir, in my opinion, are a shameless opportunist and a snake oil salesmen at best. Someone who endlessly uses the deaths of our fellow rebreather divers to advance their own personal gain. You are not conducting accident analysis. You're conducting a smear campaign for marketing purposes. This is my opinion, others are welcome to form their own based off Mr. Horn's history.
1. Do you manufacture rebreathers for profit?
2. Would you consider rEvo Rebreathers to be a competitor to you in this market?
3. Do you present hypothetical situations with regards to diving accidents?
4. How many rEvo rebreather deaths are you aware of? (Your database lists 7, it would be 8 including Stewart)
5. How does this compare with every other rebreather manufacturer when adjusted proportionally to number of units in the public?
6. How many of these deaths were deemed, by a party other than yourself, to have a common cause?
7. Of these 7 other fatalities, how many had official investigation outcomes that provided a specific cause?
8. How does this compare with every other rebreather fatality in the database?
9. You repeatedly make claims that rEvo has certain negative features as a result of "cost cutting." This is especially prevalent with regards to BOV's. Do you believe that a rebreather manufacturer who actually purchased their own incredibly expensive testing machinery would refuse to put a BOV on a rebreather to "cut costs."
(Side note, i've visited rEvo HQ personally and seen BOV's being tested on the rEvo. Paul had made it publicly clear that his adversity to BOVs stems from their poor breathing performance. Agree or disagree but he has been actively testing BOVs for years as a viable option available)
10. Do you make money from providing advice to prosecution in law suits pertaining to rebreather fatalities?
I'll tell you what I see. I see the guy from
To Brad Horn and the OR Guys
Here's another one of Dr. Simon Mitchell and everyone else talking about Mr. Horn...
http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183114&s=0b2b2aafe23993132002f92b3e3b4557
Here's another fun one...
1000 bucks if AD/Brad Horn Show at DEMA 2014
I see the guy who repeatedly makes wild and libelous accusations about other rebreather manufacturers, based upon no first hand knowledge. Who takes every opportunity they get to create sensational and hypothetical stories about other rebreather manufacturers while simultaneously interjecting how their glorious, yet never released, rebreather would have prevented every one of them.
You Sir, in my opinion, are a shameless opportunist and a snake oil salesmen at best. Someone who endlessly uses the deaths of our fellow rebreather divers to advance their own personal gain. You are not conducting accident analysis. You're conducting a smear campaign for marketing purposes. This is my opinion, others are welcome to form their own based off Mr. Horn's history.
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An oxygen rebreather is not designed to be used any deeper than 6m. You can find them for various things...
- Militaries use them and sometimes spike in depth (which also spikes in pO2), they are only allowed for short incursions at depth.
- They are used to treat DCS as it allows a longer autonomy than a OC O2 tank would.
- They are used for diving no deeper than 6m.
Advantages of O2 rebreather:
- no need for O2 cells (because you'll always be breathing oxygen)
- no need for any kind of controller for the solenoid or whatever because there's only one gas.
- no complicated part, basically
issues of O2 rebreathers:
- you cant use them for anything, as you cant go deep or long.
As of 2011 it was not possible to have the super-duper APOC ccr it with any controller, hence the O2 rebreather. It was also delivered 3 years and some months after the order, delivered as O2 while it was ordered with monitoring (can you guess the reason? yes, the monitoring part did not exist by then!). Someone also received one a year ago, after only 7 years of waiting, for an oxygen breather. I mean come on, people make O2 ccr in less than 2 weeks out of spare parts, there's nothing complicated in them!
So, while the APOC has been sold as "O2" and "all depth" versions, you'll have a very hard time finding one that can go to anything deeper than 6m. You will also have a very hard time finding any information about it. There's supposedly some existing, there's one being sold if you look up on the facebook page of brad, but that's about it, that super iCCR that will bail out for you is non-existent in real life.
tl, dr:
With what, 100 units sold, most of them apparently being O2 rebreathers, how many chances are there that someone would die on Brad's unit?
With the fact that he claims "all rebreathers but mine are poorly designed", and then gets shut down properly in court, and him still waving that "muh, design unsafe, revo bad, DR bad, only APOC good". What does that tell you about him?
The fact he did not update his (because deeplife, whatever the name of that thing is, is run by him/friends of him) list of "analysis" after being shut down in court tells a lot about his person.
Hence my warning to novices that would read the thread about Rob. It's kind of sad that it got moved away imo.
- Militaries use them and sometimes spike in depth (which also spikes in pO2), they are only allowed for short incursions at depth.
- They are used to treat DCS as it allows a longer autonomy than a OC O2 tank would.
- They are used for diving no deeper than 6m.
Advantages of O2 rebreather:
- no need for O2 cells (because you'll always be breathing oxygen)
- no need for any kind of controller for the solenoid or whatever because there's only one gas.
- no complicated part, basically
issues of O2 rebreathers:
- you cant use them for anything, as you cant go deep or long.
As of 2011 it was not possible to have the super-duper APOC ccr it with any controller, hence the O2 rebreather. It was also delivered 3 years and some months after the order, delivered as O2 while it was ordered with monitoring (can you guess the reason? yes, the monitoring part did not exist by then!). Someone also received one a year ago, after only 7 years of waiting, for an oxygen breather. I mean come on, people make O2 ccr in less than 2 weeks out of spare parts, there's nothing complicated in them!
So, while the APOC has been sold as "O2" and "all depth" versions, you'll have a very hard time finding one that can go to anything deeper than 6m. You will also have a very hard time finding any information about it. There's supposedly some existing, there's one being sold if you look up on the facebook page of brad, but that's about it, that super iCCR that will bail out for you is non-existent in real life.
tl, dr:
With what, 100 units sold, most of them apparently being O2 rebreathers, how many chances are there that someone would die on Brad's unit?
With the fact that he claims "all rebreathers but mine are poorly designed", and then gets shut down properly in court, and him still waving that "muh, design unsafe, revo bad, DR bad, only APOC good". What does that tell you about him?
The fact he did not update his (because deeplife, whatever the name of that thing is, is run by him/friends of him) list of "analysis" after being shut down in court tells a lot about his person.
Hence my warning to novices that would read the thread about Rob. It's kind of sad that it got moved away imo.
Wookie
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I just want to know if he's ever been on the winning side of a lawsuit against a rebreather manufacturer, and if not, why do plaintiffs lawyers keep spending money on this "expert"?
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