Keysdrifter454
Contributor
Quarrior:
I have around 600 dives on a BP/W set up, maybe 30 of them in doubles, maybe one of them with a crotch strap.
It simply isn't necessary, or minimalistic, with a single tank.
BP wing from the start???
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I have around 600 dives on a BP/W set up, maybe 30 of them in doubles, maybe one of them with a crotch strap.
It simply isn't necessary, or minimalistic, with a single tank.
TX101
Contributor
pablosells:
I completely agree.
I have only taken off my twinset on the surface two times and both times it was a complete b%@*h to get back into. I couldn't imagine how diffificult it would be for a new diver in the pool with continous webbing (because thats what they read on scubaboard to be the best) trying to remove & replace their BC on the surface in the OW and confined dives.
Forget gear choices for now and concentrate on finishing the course and getting some experience. I'm not saying it can't be done, but why make it more difficult for yourself?
There are several open water courses taught with bp/wing exclusively..
I've taught many entry level classes to divers wearing a bp/wing and they didn't have trouble with any skills. It's no harder to don and doff than any other bc. At the same time it can be a big help with stability and trim.
While some divers prefer to do without a crotch strap, the functionality of one doesn't have anything to do with how many tanks you have on your back. It simply adds to the stability of the rig by helping to keep the rig were it belongs. I've dived singles and doubles both with and without a crotch strap and, to tell you the truth, I prefer to have one. I'd want a crotch strap even if I wasn't diving a backplate (not that that would ever happen).
While some divers prefer to do without a crotch strap, the functionality of one doesn't have anything to do with how many tanks you have on your back. It simply adds to the stability of the rig by helping to keep the rig were it belongs. I've dived singles and doubles both with and without a crotch strap and, to tell you the truth, I prefer to have one. I'd want a crotch strap even if I wasn't diving a backplate (not that that would ever happen).
outlawaggie
Contributor
spectrum:
My two cents is as follows. Although others will disagree, it works for me. The problem I have with the rent it before you buy it is that I've yet to find a shop that rents Zeagle Ranger BC's or Mares Proton Metal Regs or any other high end or even mid level gear. So there is actually no way to rent the actual material you want to buy. I instead spent a couple of months researching regs, b/c's, computers, etc. and made an educated decision. I then went to my LDS and priced out the package. I then went online to ScubaToys.com and priced the package there. I ended up buying from ScubaToys as I saved over $700 on just my rig. (I bought another rig for my daughter). I've now been diving the setup for two months and absolutely love it. Some people will give you grief for "not supporting your LDS but $700 is a lot of hard earned money.
My rig is as follows:
Mares Proton Metal
Mares Proton Octo
Zeagle Brigade (Custom b/c sold by Scubatoys. Ranger harness with Escape bladder)
Aeris AI Computer
I haven't been able to form an opinion on this one yet. There are certainly good arguements that you should learn to dive using equipment that you are going to be divnig in. There are also valid arguements that you should try to use many different types of gear before deciding which you prefer. I like my BP/W set for cave diving but I personally prefer to dive reefs with my DR Trans II. When I teach a class for my LDS I use a "traditional" BCD. The shop has been around for many years and there is little demand or desire for B/P's. I don't disagree with the DIR folks one bit but I think that is a very small group. I travel a great deal to many dive destinations and as of yet I see very few BP/W divers. I staffed a PADI IDC last week and one of the Inst. candidates wanted to use his BP/W set up with a 7' hose. I had to explain to him that he may hamper his buddy at the IE, especially if his buddy was unfamiliar with a BP/W.
I think that a BP/W is a great system and certainly will give many divers great service and I certainly understand that the proponents of this gear are quite vocal about it being the ultimate gear choice. What I don't understand is why proponents of the BP/W don't understand what a great minority they are. There are quite a few of us with ENORMOUS amounts of dive experience and skill that choose to dive something other than a BP/W. Or in my case to use the BP/W setup for specific types of diving.
As far as using a crotch strap (or not) with a single tank one factor should be the tank being used. An AL80 isn't typically going to slide down and crash into the back of your head. It certainly hasn't been a problem with a traditonal BCD. I do wear my crotch strap on my Trans II with a single tank but primarily because I like the stability rather than any concern I have of the tank banging the back of my head
As I have posted in the past I don't believe that there is one piece of gear that is perfect for all diving situations and all divers, thank God. I actually enjoy talking with divers, new and old, about their equipment and there decisions for choosing a particular piece of equipment. That's part of the fun of diving. Last month I was on a boat in Indonesia with 14 other divers from all over the US. All either shop owners or inst./store managers. It was very interesting and fun to look at all the different equipment choices and configurations that these EXPERIENCED divers had chosen. Everything from a Transpac to a Dacor Hub, Scubapro, Atomic and Sherwood. Split fins and paddles, Air2's to Spare Airs.
God made chocolate and vanilla for a reason!
I think that a BP/W is a great system and certainly will give many divers great service and I certainly understand that the proponents of this gear are quite vocal about it being the ultimate gear choice. What I don't understand is why proponents of the BP/W don't understand what a great minority they are. There are quite a few of us with ENORMOUS amounts of dive experience and skill that choose to dive something other than a BP/W. Or in my case to use the BP/W setup for specific types of diving.
As far as using a crotch strap (or not) with a single tank one factor should be the tank being used. An AL80 isn't typically going to slide down and crash into the back of your head. It certainly hasn't been a problem with a traditonal BCD. I do wear my crotch strap on my Trans II with a single tank but primarily because I like the stability rather than any concern I have of the tank banging the back of my head
As I have posted in the past I don't believe that there is one piece of gear that is perfect for all diving situations and all divers, thank God. I actually enjoy talking with divers, new and old, about their equipment and there decisions for choosing a particular piece of equipment. That's part of the fun of diving. Last month I was on a boat in Indonesia with 14 other divers from all over the US. All either shop owners or inst./store managers. It was very interesting and fun to look at all the different equipment choices and configurations that these EXPERIENCED divers had chosen. Everything from a Transpac to a Dacor Hub, Scubapro, Atomic and Sherwood. Split fins and paddles, Air2's to Spare Airs.
God made chocolate and vanilla for a reason!
scubadobadoo
Contributor
So MANY good opinions/points here on this thread.
I would take the class using rental gear and continue to educate yourself a little more using this board and other options like your LDS and then add your class/diving experience together with what you will learn. Then, maybe, your combined experience will lead to a more positive gear buying experience. After all, it's hard to know what you really like before you do it.
As for BP and Wings, I will have to admit that if I would have bought a BPW off the bat, I would have saved myself over $1000 in waisted BC's not to mention my time. I love my BPW, and while no gear is perfect in all situations, I have found that my BPW is as close as it gets. Love it, love it, love it! I have used it with my dry suit and with a 2mil skin and loved it! Let me add that MY BPW isn't really all that much dif. than a jacket style BC as I don't have continuos webbing (DR transplate) and only use a small 30# single wing (venture) on my SS BP. One big dif. is that I don't have a ton of material clogging up the front of my body like I used to with my old BC. Still have a power inflator and straps though. Once it's set up, not much dif.
Many will argue that a BPandWing is for tech diving and is too advanced. That is an argument you may hear from a LDS that doesn't sell them. By design, it is simple and that fact doesn't complicate its use.
As for a crotch strap, I like it. Hey, it only costs $5-$10 bucks for a crotch strap anyway so get it and try it. If you don't like it, clean it and send it to me!
My biggest advice to you, once you do decide to get gear, is to buy what you WANT the first time or you will NEVER be happy and end up buying it later. This will cost more initially, but will save you time and cash in the long run. Again though, how can you know what you want if you have never been diving. Once you take the class, it will all make more sense to you. Have fun and welcome to this awesome sport!
I would take the class using rental gear and continue to educate yourself a little more using this board and other options like your LDS and then add your class/diving experience together with what you will learn. Then, maybe, your combined experience will lead to a more positive gear buying experience. After all, it's hard to know what you really like before you do it.
As for BP and Wings, I will have to admit that if I would have bought a BPW off the bat, I would have saved myself over $1000 in waisted BC's not to mention my time. I love my BPW, and while no gear is perfect in all situations, I have found that my BPW is as close as it gets. Love it, love it, love it! I have used it with my dry suit and with a 2mil skin and loved it! Let me add that MY BPW isn't really all that much dif. than a jacket style BC as I don't have continuos webbing (DR transplate) and only use a small 30# single wing (venture) on my SS BP. One big dif. is that I don't have a ton of material clogging up the front of my body like I used to with my old BC. Still have a power inflator and straps though. Once it's set up, not much dif.
Many will argue that a BPandWing is for tech diving and is too advanced. That is an argument you may hear from a LDS that doesn't sell them. By design, it is simple and that fact doesn't complicate its use.
As for a crotch strap, I like it. Hey, it only costs $5-$10 bucks for a crotch strap anyway so get it and try it. If you don't like it, clean it and send it to me!
My biggest advice to you, once you do decide to get gear, is to buy what you WANT the first time or you will NEVER be happy and end up buying it later. This will cost more initially, but will save you time and cash in the long run. Again though, how can you know what you want if you have never been diving. Once you take the class, it will all make more sense to you. Have fun and welcome to this awesome sport!
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Pete,
You have recieved much good advice here already. I'm biased towards BackPlates & Wings as I am a manufacturer of.......BackPlates & Wings.
At the risk of being selfserving, let me point out that our equipment is available with a harness that is intended to be familar to the recreational diver, much more so than a traditional one piece "Hogarthian" harness used on many backplates.
Although others may differ, a crotch strap is an important feature. Back inflate BC's including BP&W's have a reputation for forcing the diver forward at the surface. This can happen if an overweighted diver, not using a crotch strap overinflates the wing. The rig rises out of the water, but the diver does not. Now the rig is over the diver's head. With a crotch strap, and properly weighted, only a very small amount of gas in the wing is necessary for comfort at the surface.
Here too our harness includes a quick release crotch strap.
Good luck with your search, and training.
Regards,
Tobin George
You have recieved much good advice here already. I'm biased towards BackPlates & Wings as I am a manufacturer of.......BackPlates & Wings.
At the risk of being selfserving, let me point out that our equipment is available with a harness that is intended to be familar to the recreational diver, much more so than a traditional one piece "Hogarthian" harness used on many backplates.
Although others may differ, a crotch strap is an important feature. Back inflate BC's including BP&W's have a reputation for forcing the diver forward at the surface. This can happen if an overweighted diver, not using a crotch strap overinflates the wing. The rig rises out of the water, but the diver does not. Now the rig is over the diver's head. With a crotch strap, and properly weighted, only a very small amount of gas in the wing is necessary for comfort at the surface.
Here too our harness includes a quick release crotch strap.
Good luck with your search, and training.
Regards,
Tobin George
Hi Pete,
Something I see missing here. There is 2 basic types of BC's used to day, the jacket type and the back inflate type. The BP/wing is a varient of the a back inflate type but certainly not the only one. It consists of a simple metal or plastic plate, a length of webbing, a buckle and a several D rings. The other varients have different types of attachment points for the tank and harness and some have other options not usually included on the standard BP/wing. Mine for example, has weight intergration and shoulder straps that have quick releases. These are features that I want, you may or may not. I have dove jackets, BP/wings and several types of non-BP back inflates. I much prefer any back inflate over the jacket type but I found the classic BP/wing somewhat less comfortable than either of my back inflates and they are a pain to adjust. You really need to dive all 3 and make up your mind for yourself. There are fans of all types.
Something I see missing here. There is 2 basic types of BC's used to day, the jacket type and the back inflate type. The BP/wing is a varient of the a back inflate type but certainly not the only one. It consists of a simple metal or plastic plate, a length of webbing, a buckle and a several D rings. The other varients have different types of attachment points for the tank and harness and some have other options not usually included on the standard BP/wing. Mine for example, has weight intergration and shoulder straps that have quick releases. These are features that I want, you may or may not. I have dove jackets, BP/wings and several types of non-BP back inflates. I much prefer any back inflate over the jacket type but I found the classic BP/wing somewhat less comfortable than either of my back inflates and they are a pain to adjust. You really need to dive all 3 and make up your mind for yourself. There are fans of all types.
Mandy3206
Contributor
This is an easy question:
1) Train yourself.
2) Log at least 50 dives in rental or borrowed gear to get experience.
3) Buy the BP/W setup if you still want it.
I'm very happy with mine, but I bought it after 300+ dives, when I was really sure what I wanted and did the apropiate research for the gear I wanted.
Welcome to the sport and buy only quality gear, avoid the cheapo stuff, you may end up spending more in the long run.
1) Train yourself.
2) Log at least 50 dives in rental or borrowed gear to get experience.
3) Buy the BP/W setup if you still want it.
I'm very happy with mine, but I bought it after 300+ dives, when I was really sure what I wanted and did the apropiate research for the gear I wanted.
Welcome to the sport and buy only quality gear, avoid the cheapo stuff, you may end up spending more in the long run.
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