BP/W Questions

[Griffo]

I was hoping I could get some help / opinions with possible rig selection. I currently dive with a jacket BC, and am looking at launching into DIR / GUE diving and thus need a whole new setup for both myself and the wife.

I am 176cm (5'10") and weigh 80KG (176lb's). I dive here in Melbourne in a 7/5mill semi dry with 10L and 12L steel singles (I believe these are equivalent to your Steel 80's and 100's) depending on what I rent from the shop. (Untangling cubic feet, litres, PSI, bar for scuba tanks and RMV / SAC calculations [Archive] - ScubaBoard is a good reference).

I am thinking about doing drysuit diving in the winter, however that's not the deciding factor in equipment choice.

More important, is that I do a lot of warm water diving, which is generally AL80's and 5mill steamers or shorties. And I want to move into doubles eventually as there is a lot of deep wreck diving around here. What I'm looking for is the most flexibility out of a rig, with the least amount of "wasted" purchases.

My questions are around
a) Plate - Al or Steel. Obviously Al travels easier, but will it be too light for true GUE style diving in colder waters with the thicker suits?
b) Should I just get a steel plate and a soft / plastic travel plate for warmer weather diving?
c) Wing size(s) - I have no idea where to start, no matter how much I read. Or style
d) Wing type - some manufactures have wings they claim suit singles AND doubles. Any opinions? Am I choosing the worst of both worlds?
e) Single tank Adaptors - or some manufactueres claim their wings don't need them. Any opinions?
f) The Hog harness - i've heard that it doesn't suit women as much as men (damn breasts!). Any comment? Maybe we can get her a harness setup that may not be strict DIR but would be at least a BP/W and not a jacket

Confused

 

[cool_hardware52]

I was hoping I could get some help / opinions with possible rig selection. I currently dive with a jacket BC, and am looking at launching into DIR / GUE diving and thus need a whole new setup for both myself and the wife.

I am 176cm (5'10") and weigh 80KG (176lb's). I dive here in Melbourne in a 7/5mill semi dry with 10L and 12L steel singles (I believe these are equivalent to your Steel 80's and 100's) depending on what I rent from the shop. (Untangling cubic feet, litres, PSI, bar for scuba tanks and RMV / SAC calculations [Archive] - ScubaBoard is a good reference).

I am thinking about doing drysuit diving in the winter, however that's not the deciding factor in equipment choice.

More important, is that I do a lot of warm water diving, which is generally AL80's and 5mill steamers or shorties. And I want to move into doubles eventually as there is a lot of deep wreck diving around here. What I'm looking for is the most flexibility out of a rig, with the least amount of "wasted" purchases.

My questions are around
a) Plate - Al or Steel. Obviously Al travels easier, but will it be too light for true GUE style diving in colder waters with the thicker suits?

You will need the ballast a SS plate provides.

b) Should I just get a steel plate and a soft / plastic travel plate for warmer weather diving?

The typical lightweight plate only is only ~3 lbs lighter (dry travel weight) than a SS plate

c) Wing size(s) - I have no idea where to start, no matter how much I read. Or style

Wing size is a function of exposure suit buoyancy. I'd prefer real buoyancy numbers on your 7mm suit, but a fair estimate is ~20 lbs. That makes a 26-30 lbs wing a reasonable choice. Your future plans for a dry suit argue for the 30.

d) Wing type - some manufactures have wings they claim suit singles AND doubles. Any opinions? Am I choosing the worst of both worlds?

Short answer is to avoid "dual purpose" wings. If and when you are ready for doubles you will need ~$5K - $10K of equipment and training, the correct doubles wing is a trivial part of that.

e) Single tank Adaptors - or some manufactueres claim their wings don't need them. Any opinions?

Correctly designed systems do not require a STA.

f) The Hog harness - i've heard that it doesn't suit women as much as men (damn breasts!). Any comment? Maybe we can get her a harness setup that may not be strict DIR but would be at least a BP/W and not a jacket.

Women use Hog Harnesses routinely.

Tobin

 

[knowone]

Have Melbourne women moved
their breasts since I was there.


Go finger some stuff at Rods in East Moorabbin

Alpha Diving Products

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...9b3jDQ&usg=AFQjCNE65xYgb_xfJxcsSCiK8kiChRgXoA

And Daniel, reg tech extaordinaire under the same roof at Scuba Repair

Tell em Emile sent you and they'll throw you out laughing

 

[Tortuga68]

f) The Hog harness - i've heard that it doesn't suit women as much as men (damn breasts!). Any comment?

Not an issue

 

[DevonDiver]

View attachment 108098

Uuuhhh.... what was the question again?

 

[Tortuga68]

Dunno, something about boobs I think...

Correctly designed systems do not require a STA

I still like having one - the newer Halcyon U-shaped design - as it keeps the first stage further away from the back of my head

 

[lv2dive]

...I dive here in Melbourne in a 7/5mill semi dry with 10L and 12L steel singles (I believe these are equivalent to your Steel 80's and 100's) depending on what I rent from the shop. (Untangling cubic feet, litres, PSI, bar for scuba tanks and RMV / SAC calculations [Archive] - ScubaBoard is a good reference).

Just as an FYI - I found the closest equivalent to the 12L tanks was LP85 Steel tanks. The 12L are tad longer and skinnier but from a trim perspective that's the closest match, if you are trying to find the equivalent. Realize that was not a question but thought it might be relevant.

 

[lv2dive]

I was hoping I could get some help / opinions with possible rig selection. I currently dive with a jacket BC, and am looking at launching into DIR / GUE diving and thus need a whole new setup for both myself and the wife.

I am 176cm (5'10") and weigh 80KG (176lb's). I dive here in Melbourne in a 7/5mill semi dry with 10L and 12L steel singles (I believe these are equivalent to your Steel 80's and 100's) depending on what I rent from the shop. (Untangling cubic feet, litres, PSI, bar for scuba tanks and RMV / SAC calculations [Archive] - ScubaBoard is a good reference).

I am thinking about doing drysuit diving in the winter, however that's not the deciding factor in equipment choice.

More important, is that I do a lot of warm water diving, which is generally AL80's and 5mill steamers or shorties. And I want to move into doubles eventually as there is a lot of deep wreck diving around here. What I'm looking for is the most flexibility out of a rig, with the least amount of "wasted" purchases.

My questions are around
a) Plate - Al or Steel. Obviously Al travels easier, but will it be too light for true GUE style diving in colder waters with the thicker suits?
b) Should I just get a steel plate and a soft / plastic travel plate for warmer weather diving?
c) Wing size(s) - I have no idea where to start, no matter how much I read. Or style
d) Wing type - some manufactures have wings they claim suit singles AND doubles. Any opinions? Am I choosing the worst of both worlds?
e) Single tank Adaptors - or some manufactueres claim their wings don't need them. Any opinions?
f) The Hog harness - i've heard that it doesn't suit women as much as men (damn breasts!). Any comment? Maybe we can get her a harness setup that may not be strict DIR but would be at least a BP/W and not a jacket

Confused

a) and b) I started out with a steel plate and it worked great for me for almost two years, didn't need an aluminum. For tropical diving, most (not all!) people I know use steel even when traveling, so that they need less or no weight on a belt. I only recently started to use my aluminum plate and that is for when I am diving my double 104's with stages.

c) Personally I very much prefer a donut over a horseshoe-shaped wing bc I find it is easier to move the air around. If it is at possible to try before you buy (is there anyone near you who would let you borrow?) that is my suggestion. My first wing purchase was of a brand a lot of people highly recommend, and although the quality is great, the wing is a longer and narrower horseshoe-shaped wing that doesn't work as well for me, as a slightly shorter donut-shaped wing.

d) Get the wing you want/need for the tank/exposure protection you are diving. One wing won't work for singles and doubles - if it works for doubles it is going to be entirely too big for singles. Yes that would be the worst of both worlds.

e) Regarding an earlier comment about STAs: I have BP/W systems for single tanks, both with and without STAs... I certainly wouldn't say that the system WITH a STA is incorrectly designed, I'd just say it is designed differently. In fact, the system WITH the STA has the advantage of pushing the tank valves a bit further away from my head, which is actually meaningful to me as that was one of my biggest issues when I first started diving the BP/W. OTOH, the setup for the BP withOUT the STA is nice in terms of simplicity and less weight to carry on the plane. YMMV.

f) Regarding the Hog Harness for women question: I am 5'5, have dove several different jacket BCs over the years, and struggled with fit bc I'm pretty shortwaisted. When I went to a BP/W I bought some sort of comfort/quick harness. It came crisscrossed in back and rubbed the back of my neck to such an extent that I re-rigged it uncrossed. After that change, on each side, one of the pieces of hardware ended up placed in such a way that they literally dug into my arms and I ended up with huge bruises. I tried several ways to rerig it to work before I gave up and went to a Hog harness. Especially for shorter people, sometimes the "comfort" harnesses really create challenges. Net net - once I switched to true one piece harness, and got it fitted properly, I never looked back. It takes a little getting used to, but I highly recommend it over comfort harnesses, buckles, etc... Plus the webbing alone is only $20 or so, vs. whatever the cost of the "comfort harness" bells and whistles.

As always, my $.02 and YMMV.

 

[TSandM]

As a somewhat busty woman, I can testify that a Hog harness won't cause problems. In fact, if your wife is small, she may want to cross the straps behind her neck, so they don't try to slip off her shoulders.

I agree with the bit about "one wing to suit them all"; it doesn't exist. Unlike Kate, though, I prefer horseshoe wings, because I like to park gas where I want it, especially when carrying stages or deco bottles. I think, in practice, though, the differences are minimal, and wing SHAPE is far more important.

You will do fine with a stainless plate, so long as you are wearing exposure protection.

If you're in Melbourne, you will do well to get in touch with Nick Schoeffler and talk to him about your gear choices. You can save a lot of money by getting good advice from the beginning.

 

[halocline]

You could start with a steel plate, but eventually you'll likely end up with both steel and AL. I tend to use a steel plate with AL tanks and vice-versa, but that's in warm water with a 5mil suit maximum. The plate and harness themselves are not too expensive, so you can just move your wing from one to the other as you need to. Definitely follow the advice of getting the smallest wing you can get away with for your single tank diving, and a separate doubles wing for doubles. It's pretty easy to find doubles wings used or at a good deal; the market for them is smaller.

The STA is a hold-over from the days when backplate/wings were designed for doubles and lacked the cam band slots. Now many wings incorporate some way of holding a tank securely in place without the STA, and for most people, this is the preferred option. There are still some that prefer the STA, and it can add a lot of ballast to the plate if you need that. You'll have to check out a few systems and see what you like. I use a very simple system with no STA, no 'roll control' and no bolts holding the wing in place, and I'm still alive....