BP/W..... one BC to rule them all??

[cool_hardware52]

Agreed! What happens if the diver at the beginning of the dive has an inflator or wing or reg failure at 100+ ' ? For fun, let's add a down current. What would you do?

Please, are we really going to go down this road *again* where you promise answers and never provide them?

Still waiting from the *last* thread where you repeatedly demonstrated you haven't a clue about BP&W's and tropical diving.


If your inflator fails orally inflate. Were you not trained to do so?

Reg failure? Such as? Primary? Go your back up.

First stage fails closed? Really? If so you have problems other than buoyancy.

The diver I described will be about -5 to -6 at 100 ft. at most, probably less. Can you not kick up 5-6 lbs? Remember the wetsuit rebounds on the way up.

At some point in thin or no suits even the most basic gear, i.e. a full al 80 and reg will be about 6 lbs negative even if the diver is wearing *no* other ballast.
That leaves ditching the gear as the only choice if faced with a long wait at the surface with the laundry list of failures you have included.

Sorry, but I just don't plan for

Total Inflator failure, + Reg failure + Loss of all Teammates + Massive down current + Asteroid Impact.

Tobin

 

[boulderjohn]

Ermahgerd, your crusade against BP/W continues. Since you're replying to SB posts now, maybe you could take some time to update us on the worst case scenarios you mentioned here - http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/513269-bp-w-me-my-son-19.html#post7495284


Reg failure -> That's what your buddy's there for, get her backup reg
Inflator failure -> Oral inflation
Wing failure -> Assuming you didn't breath at all on the way down to 100' and you were wearing a super cheap 3mm that lost all it's buoyancy at 100', you might have to swim up max 8lb at the very bottom. That's not super easy but it's not impossible either. As you get higher up in the water column, swimming is going to get easier and your buddy is hopefully going to be there to help you if you need it as well.
Downcurrent -> If you're on a hard bottom AND once you get sorted out on breathable gas with your buddy, you can move sideways to get out of the downcurrent before you start your swim up.

If you're 100' in midwater over a 500' deep chasm in a 3mm on an AL80, have a failure and get caught in a downcurrent, you would ... uh, I don't know, I would try not to get into that situation in the first place.

Although it is nice to have a buddy, a decent diver should be able to solve all such problems easily without that buddy.

The response was to Tobin's statement: "It's very common for divers in 3mm suits with al 80's to dive using nothing but their plate, harness and reg for ballast." In the scenarios beaverdivers described, the diver is NOT significantly overweighted (that was his point), will not require much air in the BCD at all to maintain neutral buoyancy, and should have no trouble swimming to the surface. The diver will not be plummeting helplessly into the abyss.

 

[elgoog]

Although it is nice to have a buddy, a decent diver should be able to solve all such problems easily without that buddy.

Agree.
Although, for a 1st stage failure on a single tank setup, you would need some redundant gas supply (pony bottle, buddy, whatever)

In the scenarios beaverdivers described, the diver is NOT significantly overweighted (that was his point)

Disagree (on that being beaverdivers' point).
From previous posts, and this one, it seems like beaverdivers is trying to find some corner case or worst case scenario where a diver would be in a dangerous situation with a backplate at some point during the dive regardless of whether you were correctly weighted or not.

 

[cool_hardware52]

From previous posts, and this one, it seems like beaverdivers is trying to find some corner case or worst case scenario where a diver would be in a dangerous situation with a backplate at some point during the dive regardless of whether you were correctly weighted or not.

Bingo! The Mis Information campaign continues.

Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

also, while I've mentioned this before, I'll mention it again. One of the requirements we have for students is to retrieve a diving brick from the bottom of the dive well wearing nothing but swim trunks. Bricks are 10lbs, pool is 4m deep. They then have to bring it over to the side of the pool. Regular requirement for lifeguards as well. If you can get 10lbs up off of the bottom and keep it at the surface without fins, you can sure as hell get 8-12lbs up off of the bottom with fins...

 

[halocline]

One of the requirements we have for students is to retrieve a diving brick from the bottom of the dive well wearing nothing but swim trunks.

How do the female students feel about this requirement?:shocked2:

 

[turnburglar]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great replies. For my local lake I was wearing 12 pounds of lead with a jacket and Al80 and a 2:1 shorty. I'd consider myself a "lean" diver at 7% body fat. My wife was wearing only 8 pounds in her jacket but was diving a HP80 with a shorty. For reference when I was diving in cold Cali waters I was wearing 16-18 pounds of lead for a 7mm and AL80 in a jacket bc. While the shorty suits where fine for the ~75* surface water for the 100* day, what another poster said was pretty accurate. "you won't stay long past the thermocline". I haven't dove tropical waters yet, and see why no suit or a shorty would make sense on the surface, but do people rock thicker suits to go deeper?So far I am thinking an AL plate with some trim pockets and a ditch able belt looks like the best choice as adding or subtracting lead seems a lot easier than limiting what tanks and suits I can jump in with, especially when I am going from fresh to salt and plan on flying my gear. What say the board?

 

[eelnoraa]

Agreed! What happens if the diver at the beginning of the dive has an inflator or wing or reg failure at 100+ ' ? For fun, let's add a down current. What would you do?

I can't held myself back on this. I have repeatly asked you nicely what would be your recommendation for such a dive condition and get no response.

I am thinking, a diver in 3mm shorty, AL80 tank, your recommendation must be a scubapro night hawk, with 45lb of lift, 24lb integrated weight pocket. Probably +5lb buoyant on surface. So a diver must carry +5 for BC, +4 for AL80, +4 for 3mm, total of 13lb (8 out of these 13 will become 0 at 100ft) Now I give you just two failures: BC failure at the shoulder pull dump, quick release weight pocket get stuck. What would you do?

should we add reg failure and down current too??

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great replies. For my local lake I was wearing 12 pounds of lead with a jacket and Al80 and a 2:1 shorty. I'd consider myself a "lean" diver at 7% body fat. My wife was wearing only 8 pounds in her jacket but was diving a HP80 with a shorty. For reference when I was diving in cold Cali waters I was wearing 16-18 pounds of lead for a 7mm and AL80 in a jacket bc. While the shorty suits where fine for the ~75* surface water for the 100* day, what another poster said was pretty accurate. "you won't stay long past the thermocline". I haven't dove tropical waters yet, and see why no suit or a shorty would make sense on the surface, but do people rock thicker suits to go deeper?So far I am thinking an AL plate with some trim pockets and a ditch able belt looks like the best choice as adding or subtracting lead seems a lot easier than limiting what tanks and suits I can jump in with, especially when I am going from fresh to salt and plan on flying my gear. What say the board?

If we assume you are neutral in swim trunks and all you have added is a 2mm shorty (positive by maybe 2 lbs) and an al 80 which will be about +3 empty in fresh water why do you need 14 lbs of ballast? (12 lead, 2 for your reg) ? It suggest to me that you are over weighted.

Tobin

 

[phoenix31tt]

Hey guys, thanks for all the great replies. For my local lake I was wearing 12 pounds of lead with a jacket and Al80 and a 2:1 shorty. I'd consider myself a "lean" diver at 7% body fat.

At that amount of weighting for a jacket I'd estimate a SS backplate instead of an AL, then you can use it for cold water as well to reduce balast.


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