BP/W info/weighting

[RiverRat]

OK, after much debate I'm really thinking about a BP/W versus jacket style BCD. For about the same price as a decent BC one can get setup with BP/W/Harness etc. I'm a new OW diver, but even so my experience with rental BC's has me leaning towards the uncluttered feel of a BP/W even though I have not tried one. Most of the BC's I've tried either give a squeeze or ride up on a dive, very uncomfortable. Keep in mind these are rentals BC's so I'm not trying to judge the "better" jackets out there (or better fit). Maybe someone can help me on estimated weighting with a BP/W? Here's my info:

First dives in cold water
7 mm full wetsuit
7 mm hood
5 mm gloves
5 mm booties
Scubapro Jet Fins (slightly negative I believe)
80 cu AL tank I believe
Scubapro BCD

I adjusted to 28 lbs. lead in freshwater
I'm 5' 10" tall, currently weigh 228 lbs. but eventually I'll be down
to around 200 lbs.

I'm thinking of the Halcyon SS BP / harness and a Pioneer 36 lbs. wing? Would I be better off diving a steel tank for local stuff?
I think the 36 lbs. wing should do ok in fresh and salt? 36 lbs. lift enough if I start to dive shallow wrecks?

Appreciate any and all info!

Thanks in advance,
RiverRat

 

[ABQdiver]

If you choose the "standard" SS backplate, it runs right about 6#. FredT has some Heavy BP that will weigh more. You can also get a weighted STA (single tank adapter) that will put about 6 more pounds where you need it: at your torso.

Obviously a steel tank can add more weight to your kit and most if not all of them are negative when empty which will help you take some weight off your belt.

I LOVE the BP and wing kit and would not ever go back to a standard BC. Do a search on the board and you'll find a ton of great stuff, just be prepared to read though it all.

Have fun deciding!!

 

[FredT]

or simply send an e-mail to the address in my sig.

I'll send you the info on buoyancy calulations and plate weight options by e-mail.

FT

 

[zslnk]

I was in the same situation as you.

As a new OW diver looking to aquire equipment I went out and purchased a 36lb Halcyon BP/Wing, the difference is amazing after using cheap jacket BC's for my cert dives. There is no squeeze and my trim is excelent for a new diver (I have no feedback on this but I can just glide around horizintal frog kicking like I was born down there after 2 dives).

I'm wearing 24lb. of lead on a belt with the 6lb backplate. I'm thinking about making some trim weights to take some weight off the belt this week.

For reference I'm 6'3", 205lbs. and I wear a 7mil 2 piece with boots and gloves.

Craig.

 

[Don Burke]

RiverRat once bubbled...
OK, after much debate I'm really thinking about a BP/W versus jacket style BCD. For about the same price as a decent BC one can get setup with BP/W/Harness etc. I'm a new OW diver, but even so my experience with rental BC's has me leaning towards the uncluttered feel of a BP/W even though I have not tried one. Most of the BC's I've tried either give a squeeze or ride up on a dive, very uncomfortable. Keep in mind these are rentals BC's so I'm not trying to judge the "better" jackets out there (or better fit). Maybe someone can help me on estimated weighting with a BP/W? Here's my info:

First dives in cold water
7 mm full wetsuit
7 mm hood
5 mm gloves
5 mm booties
Scubapro Jet Fins (slightly negative I believe)
80 cu AL tank I believe
Scubapro BCD

I adjusted to 28 lbs. lead in freshwater
I'm 5' 10" tall, currently weigh 228 lbs. but eventually I'll be down
to around 200 lbs.

I'm thinking of the Halcyon SS BP / harness and a Pioneer 36 lbs. wing? Would I be better off diving a steel tank for local stuff?
I think the 36 lbs. wing should do ok in fresh and salt? 36 lbs. lift enough if I start to dive shallow wrecks?

Appreciate any and all info!

Thanks in advance,
RiverRat

Since a steel backplate weighs about six pounds, you are looking at taking six pounds off your belt. You'll probably find yourself taking off a little more later since there is probably a little hidden buoyancy in the the jacket BC.

The standard AL80 is about four pounds positive when empty and steel tanks are mainly a bit closer to neutral when empty. If you go from a standard AL80 to a neutral tank, that's four pounds you can take off your belt.

Doing both of those things drops you to eighteen pounds on your belt.

When you start a dive, you are heavy by the amount of gas in your tank that is more than what you adjusted your weight for. Thats about five pounds for an 80 foot tank.

When you descend, the neoprene in your suit compresses and you are heavy by the amount of lost buoyancy.

Your BC needs to be able to handle gas weight and neoprene compression.

In theory, you should be able to use a smaller BC at shallower depths due to less compression. In practice, the difference between a wetsuit at 30 feet and the same wetsuit at 100 feet is only a few pounds.

One of the things you need to think about is ditchable weight. There are two problems you need to be able to deal with:

1- You jump off the boat, catch on something, and shred the inflator hose on your BC. How much weight do you need to drop to stay on the surface?

2- You get that fixed and try the dive again. As soon as you get to the bottom, you catch on something and shred the inflated hose on your BC. How much weight do you need to drop to get to the surface? You may or may not want to count on being able to swim up. Problems often come in bunches.

Eighteen pounds should get you out of both problems.

There are many out there who will tell you that your BC needs to be able to lift your weightbelt. While that often works out, it isn't the real answer. Ditchable weight and BC lift are two independent problems that share some input parameters.


Assuming that you are weighted correctly, the 36 will work for you. It is possible that a 30 or 27 would be okay. I'd use a 36 with that much neoprene.

 

[RiverRat]

WOW! OK, you guys got me thinking now !@#$%
I see some folks like to dive without weight belts, but as a new diver that does make me feel a little uneasy, especially hearing how one needs to be able to "swim your rig" to the surface from depth in an emergency. That's why I'm thinking of starting out with some weight on a belt and then adjusting from there with maybe 6 or 10 lb. P weights or a V weight. I was thinking 12 lb. BP and maybe 6 lb. P weight but that would only give around 10 lb. or less on the belt. Is that enough say at 130 ft. with a blown inflator hose? I suppose I need to get as close as I can to start and then just dive the thing and get a feel for what works.

RR

 

[JohnCollins]

I'm slowly changing over to a BP/wings (have the plate, am waiting for the new Halcyon single tank wing), and I pondered this weight stuff a lot. That was terrifically helpful.

Lot's of folks do that on this board. I just like you to know it's really appreciated!

JPC

 

[RiverRat]

Yes, many thanks to all! Much to digest but really required to get started on the right foot.

Big thanks to FredT! Looking forward to working with you on a BP/W setup, thanks for sending out that info right away.

RR