BP/W: I officially don't get it

[The Chairman]

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[The Chairman]

BTW, as a compromise between the two consider the Zeagle Express Tech. I think Oxychek has a close version to this, but I think that this is probably the most revolutionary design in BCs/BP&Wings since their inception. I can fit everyone posting here with the same Express Tech in far less time than a BP& Wing and more comfortably too! Simply a wow in my book.

Express Tech - Specialized BCs - BCs - Zeagle Dive Systems​

 

[Gombessa]

Unfortunately, no... I don't think there's a BC out there that would make ice diving less crazy.

A heated BC might do the trick

 

[babygonz123]

Given how few new divers start with BP/Ws it would be interesting to see if it was reversed - how many new divers would go from BP/W to jackets. I suspect it would be much lower than the reverse.

I started out with a single tank BP/W that I got before my basic O/W. I loved it then as I love it now (with a larger wing and doubles) I have used back-inflate and standard style jackets and just feel they are bulky, cumbersome and not nearly as secure.

I use my small wing with an STA for swift current river dives and my doubles setup for everything else.

 

[CompuDude]

I started out with a single tank BP/W that I got before my basic O/W. I loved it then as I love it now (with a larger wing and doubles) I have used back-inflate and standard style jackets and just feel they are bulky, cumbersome and not nearly as secure.

I often wonder what is that the people who prefer Jackets prefer about their system. Is the bp/w not bulky enough? Not cumbersome enough? Far too secure for their liking?

I guess the cummerbund, with it's plastic quick release clip, does fasten a smidge faster than simply threading a 2" belt through a buckle, and the loose fit can sometimes be a smidge easier to get into. Is that it? Or perhaps it's the upright floating position on the surface... great for long discussions with students while floating, I'd certainly agree. But I don't really see how that helps with the diving part.

The devil you know, I guess?

 

[Randy43068]

I started out with a single tank BP/W that I got before my basic O/W. I loved it then as I love it now (with a larger wing and doubles) I have used back-inflate and standard style jackets and just feel they are bulky, cumbersome and not nearly as secure.

I use my small wing with an STA for swift current river dives and my doubles setup for everything else.

one of the many reasons I use a BP/W for my single rig is everything is in the same place on the single set up as the double setup. Of course there are many other reason I like it, too.

I like the freedom of movement a BP/Wing gives me in and out of the water. Easy to pack very little drag in the water, it's got everything I could ever want and you can't beat the simplicity.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I often wonder what is that the people who prefer Jackets prefer about their system. Is the bp/w not bulky enough? Not cumbersome enough? Far too secure for their liking?

I guess the cummerbund, with it's plastic quick release clip, does fasten a smidge faster than simply threading a 2" belt through a buckle, and the loose fit can sometimes be a smidge easier to get into. Is that it? Or perhaps it's the upright floating position on the surface... great for long discussions with students while floating, I'd certainly agree. But I don't really see how that helps with the diving part.

The devil you know, I guess?

I have a wing and a BC and have not used the wing for the last 75-100 dives this year. Unless I am taking a stage bottle (which works better with a BP harness), I prefer the ease with which I can get in and out of my BC. A comfortable posiion while floating on the surface can be an important factor if you drift dive and sometimes spend some time on the surface. Having the ability to have your head held vertically and out of the water improves your ability to see and be seen by the boat operator when it is rough.

I just don't buy the crap about leaning back and not putting too much air in the back inflate wing. It is simple physics, if the bouynacy is all on the back, that is the part that will tend to be up and the rest of the system (the diver) will be down. It amazes me that some BP/W wacko's think the Wing is great when it suspends you horizontally when underwater, but somehow when you get to the surface it magically is perfectly designed to hold you vertically???


Also, if you dive in warm water, there is no need to place much air in the bC at depth, so some of the issues with BC squeeze (and trim) are non-existant in this situation. Additionally, I don't use weight integrated BC, because of all the problems they introduce.

I have modified my BC to remove the chest strap, removed the cumerbund and replaced with a simple 2 inch steel buckle and an elastic rubber belt and also add (an elastic) crotch strap when the water is cold and I have to put more air in the BC at depth. I wonder if many of the complaints about loose, sloppy BC's would be addressed with the same remedy a BP/W relies upon to provide stability: a crotch strap?

For me, the ability to quickly slip into a BC while balanced precariously on a cooler on a small rocking boat brings huge value to the quick release and adjustable aspects of the BC (compared to my one-piece harness on the BP)

I agree that some of the super complex BC's with padding, pockets everywhere and clips crossing all over the chest and the inclusion of weight integrated pockets and attachement gizmo's and a cumberbund AND buckle.. all work together to make an overly complex BC device, but there are ways to avoid many of these issues without going to a BP/W.

 

[CompuDude]

I have a wing and a BC and have not used the wing for the last 75-100 dives this year. Unless I am taking a stage bottle (which works better with a BP harness), I prefer the ease with which I can get in and out of my BC. A comfortable posiion while floating on the surface can be an important factor if you drift dive and sometimes spend some time on the surface. Having the ability to have your head held vertically and out of the water improves your ability to see and be seen by the boat operator when it is rough.

I just don't buy the crap about leaning back and not putting too much air in the back inflate wing. It is simple physics, if the bouynacy is all on the back, that is the part that will tend to be up and the rest of the system (the diver) will be down. It amazes me that some BP/W wacko's think the Wing is great when it suspends you horizontally when underwater, but somehow when you get to the surface it magically is perfectly designed to hold you vertically???

Who said that a bp/w is "perfectly designed to hold you vertically" [on the surface]? I have read a lot of claims about bp/ws, but that's not one I recall seeing from any informed bp/w user.

Under the water, sure, and proponents have valid reasons for preferring that... that's the whole point, just as you apparently have well-considered reasons for wanting instructor-style surface floatation (which many others feel isn't the main point of their BC needs). The majority of bp/w users I've read have recommended simply laying back, which works just fine with a bp/w, particularly with steel tanks (which, again, I'm guess you don't use?). So no, I don't recall ever having read claims that they're perfect for surface floatation. "Fine", yes. "Adequate", yes. "The problems of pushing face forward are overblown", yes. But "perfect"? Not that I've read... and I would agree that anyone that has done so (I certainly don't bother reading every single one of these endless war posts) is incorrect in so stating.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I just don't buy the crap about leaning back and not putting too much air in the back inflate wing. It is simple physics, if the bouynacy is all on the back, that is the part that will tend to be up and the rest of the system (the diver) will be down. It amazes me that some BP/W wacko's think the Wing is great when it suspends you horizontally when underwater, but somehow when you get to the surface it magically is perfectly designed to hold you vertically???

If you are having trouble at the surface in a BP&W you don't have it properly set up, and or you are not properly weighted.

Ya, it's really that simple.

Tobin

 

[Bob]

If you are having trouble at the surface in a BP&W you don't have it properly set up, and or you are not properly weighted.
Ya, it's really that simple.


Tobin

It really is that easy, too many people try to make it hard. almtree: Bob