BP/W: I officially don't get it

[vixtor]

As a very recent (and very happy) BP/W user - 2 weeks&8 dives with my DSS rig, I can confirm that I haven't noticed any issue about positioning in the water. As everybody reading various opinions, I was expecting to have some issues, but in reality, at surface, I felt no push forward - I stay more easily vertical, on my back or on my front, and switch easily between positions. Underwater, I can stay vertical easily than with my previous jacket BC, and I also swim very easy on sides, on back or however else.

With a buoyant wetsuit on one size, and a heavy steel tank on the other, a jacket-style BC is not going to help anyone maintain that position.

As a bp/w-wearing (and former BC-wearing) photographer, I believe I can state quite knowledgeably that once you're properly trimmed out, there's really aren't many positions, if any, that you can hold in a bc which you can't hold in a bp/w. If a photographer has been diving jacket BCs for 30 years, and doesn't want to change how they do things, then it's that discomfort with new things that's the problem, not the gear.

 

[Gombessa]

Yes training and time in the water has a lot to do with it but can you trim out a jacket style BCD as easy as a BP/W?

I think that's more of a question of what kind of weights you have at your disposal. Jacket BC with only integrated weight pockets? Probably hard for most people to trim out. bp/w with an STA and HP80? Probably hard for most people to trim out as well.

 

[CompuDude]

As a very recent (and very happy) BP/W user - 2 weeks&8 dives with my DSS rig, I can confirm that I haven't noticed any issue about positioning in the water. As everybody reading various opinions, I was expecting to have some issues, but in reality, at surface, I felt no push forward - I stay more easily vertical, on my back or on my front, and switch easily between positions. Underwater, I can stay vertical easily than with my previous jacket BC, and I also swim very easy on sides, on back or however else.

The position we were describing as being a problem was on your side, and holding the position while still, with a heavy steel tank, a bp/w, plus a buoyant suit. Then the position is going to be harder to hold. Again, imagine laying on your side floating, holding perfectly still, trying to take a photo, with that weighting combination. Very difficult in any rig, but I can see it maybe being marginally easier in a jacket bc with a moving air bubble. That's about it, however (and of course I say this as a die-hard bp/w fan), and frankly, even in a bc, it's going to take some serious buoyancy chops to hold that particular position.

 

[D_B]

The position we were describing as being a problem was on your side, and holding the position while still, with a heavy steel tank, a bp/w, plus a buoyant suit. Then the position is going to be harder to hold. Again, imagine laying on your side floating, holding perfectly still, trying to take a photo, with that weighting combination. Very difficult in any rig, but I can see it maybe being marginally easier in a jacket bc with a moving air bubble. That's about it, however (and of course I say this as a die-hard bp/w fan), and frankly, even in a bc, it's going to take some serious buoyancy chops to hold that particular position.

I think that nails it
... maybe having a more neutrally buoyant tank would make that position stable , I think an Al80 I would spend it's first half close to being that

 

[David_57]

I dive with a backplate and wing because I want to look cool lika a techy ;-)

No actually I find it is more versatile as I use it to dive in Canada with doubles but can also use it to dive in say Coz with a single tank adaptor and works perfect in both dive conditions.

Took about 10 dives for me to nail it though not a big deal.

 

[halocline]

The air bubble will move to the highest point in any bladder, especially with the small amount of air that should be present. The big issue is ballast placement. A steel plate puts that ballast right against your back and spreads it out evenly between the two sources of buoyancy, the wing and your lungs.

You can mitigate the effects of a very negative tank by keeping it securely coupled as close to your back as possible (another advantage of the plate) and by placing weight in front, either on a belt or in pockets. In that case, an AL plate might be more appropriate. I usually use a steel plate with AL tanks and vice-versa, given my low weight needs in the warm water I dive in.

 

[peterbj7]

especially with the small amount of air that should be present

You're writing like a warm water diver. When I dive in sub 40f water I have on a thick compressed neoprene drysuit with a very thick Thinsulate undergarment. I need a lot of weight to get down, and to be able to stay down at the end of the dive, and a lot of air at depth to counteract that. It's also standard practice to carry several additional lb of lead so that during deco you can have a decent amount of air in your suit for insulation.

 

[MSilvia]

You're writing like a warm water diver.

at least 90% of my dives these days are dry, using a Weezle Extreme undergarment with a lot of loft, and a lot of ballast. Despite this, I pretty much agree with what mattboy said.

That aside, I don't carry extra lead... I maintain as close to a constant gas volume in the suit (just enough to maintain undergarment loft) as I can, and base my weighting on what I need to maintain my shallowest stops without much gas in my tanks.

 

[CompuDude]

I think that nails it
... maybe having a more neutrally buoyant tank would make that position stable , I think an Al80 I would spend it's first half close to being that

Yes, it's much easier with an Al.80 than a heavy steel tank. But I'm not going to give up my heavy steel tanks. Nor am I going to give up the other advantages in stability, durability and overall lead reduction that my bp/w delivers, just so I can lie on my side underwater!

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Recently took the plunge and bought a Halcyon BP/W set-up after reading all the "sturm and drang" on this board for years. My verdict: it's OK, but barely different (if at all) from a basic, pedestrian BC.

Give me good diving conditions and interesting marine life and, frankly, I couldn't care less about equipment (providing it's safe, of course).

So, I don't get it. Why don't people on this board care more about what they're seeing underwater instead of worrying about what they're wearing?

Why must they 'see things' during a dive to make it worth the effort?