BP/W: I officially don't get it

[Sas]

Buddy in a jacket style BC. I think his trim is pretty good.

Haven't got him to have a go of my BP/W yet but he says he will try it one day. I'll be interested to see the difference (if any).

 

[CompuDude]

There are lots of dive shops in SoCal that carry BPW of some sort, but it's only one or two representatives in the whole line of BC, and for some reasons they don't push the BPW to the new divers. Maybe push is too strong of a word, but they don't recommend it to new divers for whatever reasons.

World Aquatics in Bakersfield is a Dive Rite dealership (I think - I see ONE Transplate rig in their shop for display). I asked the owner why not carry more and he said that new divers who visited the internet already came with the pre-notion that a BPW will push you face down into the water and drown you.

Come a little farther south (or perhaps just farther West towards the ocean!) and you'll find a few more shops that sell bp/w's, including some that offer them from several product lines.

Hollywoodivers, for instance, carries Halcyon, Dive Rite and Hollis bp/w's. And can order, but doesn't usually stock, a couple others.

AND several lines of regular BCs.

 

[CompuDude]

I could see the point that was being made by him , I know that with my steel HP100 on one side, and my 7mm suit on the other, my sidways teter totter doesn't like 90*

With a buoyant wetsuit on one size, and a heavy steel tank on the other, a jacket-style BC is not going to help anyone maintain that position.

As a bp/w-wearing (and former BC-wearing) photographer, I believe I can state quite knowledgeably that once you're properly trimmed out, there's really aren't many positions, if any, that you can hold in a bc which you can't hold in a bp/w. If a photographer has been diving jacket BCs for 30 years, and doesn't want to change how they do things, then it's that discomfort with new things that's the problem, not the gear.

 

[CompuDude]

This is the whole idea behind Bill Main's Hogathian Method. Smooth, low profile, low drag and fast moving are the key points to the system, if you talk to Bill. It has, however, been somewhat perverted both under the Hogarthian name and under the DIR brand. One thing in specific is I don't think I've ever seen Bill wear a dry suit. Too much drag...

On another board recently, Jarrod Jablonski, acknowledged his DIR gear configuration was from Bill Main’s Hogarthian system, praised Bill’s contribution and said he’d changed the name because parts of his DIR system conflicted with the principles Bill professed, in specific Bill believed in deep air and JJ believed in Helium. The rigging of the gear however is pretty much the same between Hogarthian and DIR.

JJ (and other GUE training board peeps) changed the name because the DIR system, originally based on Bill Main's "hogartian" rig, was evolving to add some things that were different from Bill Main's concept and mantra, and there was a need to differentiate the two. JJ posted on this topic just recently on TDS, in fact.

 

[peterbj7]

One thing in specific is I don't think I've ever seen Bill wear a dry suit. Too much drag...

What does he do in cold water?

 

[Cave Bum]

What does he do in cold water?

He swims fast!

Seriously, I'm not sure he does much cold water diving. When I bumped into him at Ginnie a few weeks ago, he mentioned that as of last month he'd been cave diving for 40 years! He said he was ready to move on to something else.

He was telling me that as he was doing surface deco from a multistarge dive to try to find a way around the second restriction in new section in back mount...

 

[Cave Bum]

JJ (and other GUE training board peeps) changed the name because the DIR system, originally based on Bill Main's "hogartian" rig, was evolving to add some things that were different from Bill Main's concept and mantra, and there was a need to differentiate the two. JJ posted on this topic just recently on TDS, in fact.

And what JJ gave as a specific example was the deep air issue that I put in my post.

 

[CompuDude]

And what JJ gave as a specific example was the deep air issue that I put in my post.

Ok. I read your post to imply deep air was the main reason (no pun intended LOL), not just one among many. Sounds like we're all on the same page.

 

[MSilvia]

Assuming your center of gravity is right around where your lungs are - which is true for me when diving in a wetsuit but doesn't feel so in a drysuit.

It wasn't for me when I stated diving dry either, but I made changes (swapped vulcanized boots out for neoprene socks, used less gas in the suit, etc) until it was, and now find that my diving requires much less effort.

 

[gtto]

Wow! After reading through all these posts, I felt compelled to comment. Firstly, I am amazed at how vehement people get on this subject. Seriously, it isn't life or death. As a relatively new diver, I opted to go for a bp/w not because it was going to make me so much better, not because of the hype but because the simplicity of the set up appealed to me. I like to keep things simple. Do I find a night and day difference between the different types of BC's? No, but the difference is definitely there. Would I still enjoy diving with either type? Of course. Am I happy with my choice? Very. ( which is, by the way, a DSS one piece harness and ss plate.) One of the posters questioned why more dive shops weren't selling more bp/w's and I think there are a few reasons. One, the divers that don't use them really don't understand them. When I talk to most of the sales people, in the LDS's around here, very few of them understand proper weighting and understand how much wing lift is needed. The general theory seems to be that "too much is enough". People having 40 lbs of lift when 20 would more than do. Then there is the way it looks. Doesn't look as comfy as a jacket. (I think it is more comfortable, personally.) Then there are the people that claim you get pushed on your face at the surface. Untrue. And the negative hype about how hard they are to put on and take off. I was also worried that it would be difficult. It's not. And finally, there are divers that think of their BC as a life preserver. It isn't. All I need is my head to be above the water. After saying all of this, it still is only a personal choice. I don't care what you wear. Are you happy with your BC? Great. Let's dive. "Make Bubbles, Not War". Gary
PS The help and knowledge I got from Tobin regarding weight, trim and buoyancy was invaluable regardless of which BC I wear.