BP/W for me and my son?

[dumpsterDiver]

Do what ever makes you happy.

I'd suggest avoiding teammates that apparently don't know what a balanced rig is…….

Tobin

LOL.. I sold him the big, heavy steel tank AND the BC that failed...

 

[bergersau]

For the record:I now dive a Transpac Harness thus no back plate what so ever and deal with the fact I am slightly over weighted at the end of a dive when wearing Sharkskin exposure suits (neutral buoyant) Normally I dive a 15l Steel (-4 empty) so for the summer months deal with it. On vacation I was using an S100 and even when it was at 30bar I still had a little air in my wing but no more than 2 - 4 lbs (I guess) I'm 6'2 and weight 205lbs none of which can be considered an athletic build We always carry a slide slung S40 or S50 for piece of mind which of course adds a little more weight My first wing had a SS plate and it was only when I got to a 3mm suit that I carried no additional weight, the next season I switched to an Al plate, and with the increase in experience again found myself "feeling" over weighted by the time I was in a 3mmIf I'm being brutally honest over those 2 seasons I also increased my bio preneI also use a 36lb wing (dive Rite Voyager) The reason being is not for lift but more for comfort at the surface. I tried a smaller wing with a lighter tank but it never "felt" right. I will accept I may have not had the harness perfectly set up Its also likely my not feeling comfortable at the surface (as opposed to my previous bladder) was something in my head. Whatever. physiologically I've always been happier at the surface at the end of a dive floating on my back with the bigger wing. Having seen pictures of myself under water - it never looks like its taco-ed but equally it never looks as compact as say a Halcyon of oxycheck wing on the dive deck.I could I suppose wean myself away from using a steel 15l and move to a Steel 12l (-2) but I like the security of having for the most part an excess of gas at the end of a dive (we limit dives to 60 mins) as it gives a piece of mind (along with a S40 as a redundant supply) I'm never massively over weighted - I could I suppose revert to a 3mm but I much prefer the comfort and quick drying of my Sharkskin exposure suit. It is what it is (unless someone here has a solution)

With a large diameter tank like a Steel HP 15l the voyager wing won't taco and is not likely to reach the rated lift in even when filled to the point it vents. The larger than average tank diameter will limit how much the wing can fill. I use the exact same wing with a 13.6l HP steel tank and my 7mm wetsuitsuit or Waterproof Draco drysuit and find it well sized for me.

 

[Centrals]

BTW how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

So it is NOT the air speed velocity of an unladen spallow that you are interested.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin, what is the significant at 190fsw? or it is just an arbiturary deep depth?

~190 fsw is where most neo is fully compressed. Above that depth, i.e. recreational depths 130 or less, and usually much less, the divers suit will be less than fully compressed, and will still retain some of it's surface buoyancy. If the diver's wing was sized to offer at least as much lift as the the surface buoyancy of the suit there will be "spare" wing lift available to deal with the tortured scenario offered.

It is worthwhile to note that suit compression is not linear WRT to depth. As any one who's tried to conduct skills at 5 ft knows the big buoyancy changes happen shallow.

Tobin

 

[dumpsterDiver]

~190 fsw is where most neo is fully compressed. Above that depth, i.e. recreational depths 130 or less, and usually much less, the divers suit will be less than fully compressed, and will still retain some of it's surface buoyancy. If the diver's wing was sized to offer at least as much lift as the the surface buoyancy of the suit there will be "spare" wing lift available to deal with the tortured scenario offered.

It is worthwhile to note that suit compression is not linear WRT to depth. As any one who's tried to conduct skills at 5 ft knows the big buoyancy changes happen shallow.

Tobin

We can argue over how "tortured" the scenario I found myself in last year, but the reality of the matter is that I prefer to have some degree of reserve with respect to buoyancy.

In warm water and with no suit, I could EASILY dive with no BC/wing - especially if I were solo, but when diving with anyone else.. someone who I might need to rescue, I would feel irresponsible and uncomfortable without having some lift that I could use underwater to assist someone.

I find it a little ironic that many people on this board will support the use of a pony bottle, but then demand that it must be very large so that it can accommodate a whole host of simultaneous delays on the bottom, but apparently the idea of having some reserve capacity in the wing is not as valid????

I often dive with a SP BC jacket that has like 50 lbs of lift or something. It vents well, is comfortable and the excess capacity gives me some options in emergencies that a 21-lb wing would not.

Of course, I am not arguing that an excessively large wing does not have significant drawbacks and even could be dangerous should a run away inflation scenario occur and all this "excess" left capacity could shoot someone to the surface.

For me, I think I would want a wing with the minimum lift required ... plus 10...

 

[cool_hardware52]

We can argue over how "tortured" the scenario I found myself in last year, but the reality of the matter is that I prefer to have some degree of reserve with respect to buoyancy.

In warm water and with no suit, I could EASILY dive with no BC/wing - especially if I were solo, but when diving with anyone else.. someone who I might need to rescue, I would feel irresponsible and uncomfortable without having some lift that I could use underwater to assist someone.

I find it a little ironic that many people on this board will support the use of a pony bottle, but then demand that it must be very large so that it can accommodate a whole host of simultaneous delays on the bottom, but apparently the idea of having some reserve capacity in the wing is not as valid????

I often dive with a SP BC jacket that has like 50 lbs of lift or something. It vents well, is comfortable and the excess capacity gives me some options in emergencies that a 21-lb wing would not.

Of course, I am not arguing that an excessively large wing does not have significant drawbacks and even could be dangerous should a run away inflation scenario occur and all this "excess" left capacity could shoot someone to the surface.

For me, I think I would want a wing with the minimum lift required ... plus 10...

Says the same guy who sold a "friend" a negative steel tank, and BC on the verge failure, and then went diving with him knowing he had an unbalanced rig......

"Saving" people from calamities you helped create doesn't justify your gear choices.

Tobin

 

[bryanmc57]

Not to push it too far.. but it would not be that hard to imagine that you drop straight down to the bottom with a buddy, upon reaching the bottom, you find that HIS BC has failed AND he has a heavy steel tank and no ballast to drop and you are going to have to drag him up to save the day. I was presented with that EXACT situation less than a year ago. So it is not so far fetched.

I would submit that in the above scenario, your buddy did in fact have ballast to drop, but the situation wasn't so emergent as to consider dropping his rig (or at least the tank).

 

[beaverdivers]

Our 5'6", 109 lbs diver wants to dive in both cold & warm water; what is his best choice for a BP/W?

 

[bryanmc57]

Our 5'6", 109 lbs diver wants to dive in both cold & warm water; what is his best choice for a BP/W?

I would say for the optimal configuration, 2 wings. I have a Torus 17 for warm water and an LCD 30 for cold water and use both with my steel plate.

 

[Doby45]

I can see more and more why Tobin chooses not to suffer fools. Sadly or gladly depending upon your perspective, I am the same way..