Bonaire Crime - Our experience - Looking for input to share

[oldschoolto]

Real crime facts.. Bonaire doesn't even make the list.....

Jim

 

[Pedroinspain]

Minor point, but please don't conflate the city of Atlanta and the state of Georgia. Your numbers above (3259 per 100,000 and 365 per 100,000) are for the entire state of Georgia, which is largely rural. The population density in Atlanta is much greater than anywhere else in Georgia. Atlanta is an island of crime in a sea of relative tranquility.

My point was simply that I personally, based on how I have come to feel from living here in Atlanta, feel safer in Bonaire, despite the crime I know exists there--not just the petty crime but also burglaries, drug crime, violent crime, etc. Based on a weeklong stay there once a year, I think the odds are high that I will not be a victim of anything. Some friends from Atlanta were victims of burglary at their rental home in Sabadeco a couple of years ago. They didn't make a big deal about it, which I thought was curious, but perhaps understandable, given how desensitized to crime we Atlantans can be.

Point taken .... for your personal case.

Outside Krakendijk, Bonaire is also largely rural, So I believe that Georgia might be a better comparison than Atlanta. But as I said, I respect your feeling that Bonaire is safer than home. Where I live in Spain, if someone gets murdered, the entire district is in an uproar wanting to know why things got so far off the rails. Town meetings will be called in all the surroundings. In Johannesburg, where my wife was born, you would be lucky if someone even checked, if only to see whether the prone person was sleeping and had something of value on them.

She is also quite convinced that far better value and healthier reef life is available in the Red Sea and S.E. Asia than in the Caribbean.

 

[Pedroinspain]

Real crime facts.. Bonaire doesn't even make the list.....

Jim

What facts?

Do you dispute any of my data or the conclusions based on those figures? If so, reference please. If no source, don't worry .... I am not surprised.

 

[Pedroinspain]

"Fact-based conclusion: The lovely happy people of Bonaire commit 2.7 times as much property crimes as do the Georgians, and 4.3 times as many violent crimes."

I suspect a number of other Caribbean & Central American destinations would also have much higher than typical U.S. crime rates.

Many other contributors to this thread have suggested that Bonaire is much safer than the U.S.
Interesting that you feel differently

 

[Lorenzoid]

I agree my "personal case" may be exceptional, but it's all a matter of degree. Although the majority of visitors to Bonaire don't live in Atlanta, New Orleans, Johannesburg, etc., I would guess that many if not most also don't live in some idyllic, crime-free village. Many of us have to work to support our diving and travels, and we can't work out of a cabin in the woods. We live in more densely populated areas, and that's where the crime tends to be. Sadly, all too many visitors are familiar with crime from their experience where they live and other places they have traveled.

 

[oldschoolto]

Here you go, Real facts... This is world wide... Bonaire isn't even on it... and More facts that you didn't read from page 24... Eastern Caribbean 2015 Crime and Safety Report

1 Venezuela 84.44 15.56
2 South Sudan 81.32 18.68
3 South Africa 78.43 21.57
4 Papua New Guinea 77.58 22.42
5 Honduras 76.43 23.57
6 Nigeria 74.14 25.86
7 Trinidad And Tobago 72.60 27.40
8 El Salvador 72.04 27.96
9 Brazil 71.23 28.77
10 Kenya 69.49 30.51
11 Bangladesh 68.56 31.44
12 Malaysia 68.55 31.45
13 Puerto Rico 65.92 34.08
14 Jamaica 65.53 34.47
15 Peru 64.00 36.00
16 Guatemala 63.54 36.46
17 Argentina 63.28 36.72
18 Dominican Republic 63.25 36.75
19 Namibia 60.89 39.11
20 Zimbabwe 60.02 39.98
21 Tanzania 60.02 39.98
22 Libya 57.81 42.19
23 Mongolia 57.76 42.24
24 Algeria 57.58 42.42
25 Costa Rica 57.56 42.44
26 Pakistan 56.63 43.37
27 Bolivia 56.56 43.44
28 Egypt 56.53 43.47
29 Somalia 55.72 44.28
30 Vietnam 55.69 44.31
31 Syria 54.73 45.27
32 Mauritius 53.69 46.31
33 Uruguay 53.06 46.94
34 Ecuador 52.95 47.05
35 Panama 52.69 47.31
36 Iran 52.37 47.63
37 Iraq 51.51 48.49
38 Mexico 50.80 49.20
39 Lebanon 50.56 49.44
40 Morocco 50.28 49.72
41 Ghana 49.01 50.99
42 United States 48.87 51.13
43 Ukraine 48.62 51.38
44 Colombia 48.51 51.49
45 Ireland 48.39 51.61
46 Cambodia 48.17 51.83
47 Moldova 48.16 51.84
48 Albania 48.15 51.85
49 Montenegro 47.80 52.20
50 Russia 47.31 52.69
51 Indonesia 46.97 53.03
52 Jordan 46.89 53.11
53 India 46.59 53.41
54 Sri Lanka 46.26 53.74
55 Italy 46.22 53.78
56 Kazakhstan 45.88 54.12
57 Belgium 45.19 54.81
58 Maldives 45.02 54.98
59 France 44.06 55.94
60 Serbia 43.28 56.72
61 Lithuania 43.15 56.85
62 United Kingdom 43.13 56.87
63 Australia 43.12 56.88
64 Sweden 43.12 56.88
65 Thailand 42.56 57.44
66 Bosnia And Herzegovina 42.46 57.54
67 Nepal 42.15 57.85
68 Chile 42.00 58.00
69 Hungary 41.93 58.07
70 Bulgaria 41.42 58.58
71 Turkey 39.43 60.57
72 Canada 39.20 60.80
73 Tunisia 38.90 61.10
74 Greece 38.46 61.54
75 Macedonia 38.02 61.98
76 Latvia 37.79 62.21
77 Philippines 37.61 62.39
78 Bahrain 37.26 62.74
79 Brunei 36.96 63.04
80 New Zealand 36.37 63.63
81 Kuwait 36.04 63.96
82 Luxembourg 36.03 63.97
83 Portugal 35.13 64.87
84 Ethiopia 34.19 65.81
85 Slovakia 33.49 66.51
86 Germany 32.95 67.05
87 Azerbaijan 32.39 67.61
88 China 32.08 67.92
89 Czech Republic 32.06 67.94
90 Spain 31.77 68.23
91 Netherlands 31.47 68.53
92 Poland 31.41 68.59
93 Armenia 31.11 68.89
94 Israel 30.63 69.37
95 Cyprus 30.19 69.81
96 Norway 30.11 69.89
97 Iceland 29.89 70.11
98 Romania 29.72 70.28
99 Croatia 29.51 70.49
100 Oman 28.98 71.02
101 Finland 28.12 71.88
102 Belarus 27.57 72.43
103 Malta 26.73 73.27
104 Slovenia 26.27 73.73
105 Switzerland 25.73 74.27
106 Denmark 25.67 74.33
107 Saudi Arabia 25.20 74.80
108 Estonia 24.67 75.33
109 Austria 24.06 75.94
110 United Arab Emirates 23.08 76.92
111 Qatar 22.34 77.66
112 Georgia 22.16 77.84
113 Taiwan 21.21 78.79
114 Hong Kong 20.85 79.15
115 Japan 19.34 80.66
116 Singapore 15.81 84.19
117 South Korea 14.31 85.69
Showing 1 to 117 of 117 entries

Crime Index by Country 2016


Eastern Caribbean 2015 Crime and Safety Report

Jim..

 

[DustyC]

I wouldn't live in your neighborhood either. Thankfully I have a choice where to live and where to vacation.

I have a choice too. The chances of me being a victim are less than average.

 

[DustyC]

OK, let us see how true these anecdotal "my area has more crime than Bonaire" are, using Geogia, USA as an example (since Atlanta was specifically mentioned)


Anecdotal? That is rather presumptuous ... is that based on "I bet"? I object to my studies being called 'anecdotal'. So, let us not bet, but rather use cold clinical hard data.
Go here for the survey (if you can read Dutch, e.g. Vermogen = Property; Violensia or geweld = Violent): http://politiecn.com/images/stories/20160309_CRIMINALITEITSCIJFERS BONAIRE 2015 DEF.PDF Check the two types of break-ins of vehicles. Check the months in which they peak. Draw a conclusion. There is nothing anecdotal about that at all (references are all in Dutch)

[Same data reference as above] In 2011 the Bonaire population was 15823. Total 'property' (break-ins; theft etc) crimes - 1402 = 8861 incidents per 100 000 of population. For violent crimes the figure was 1567 / 100 000.

Now let's look at high-crime Atlanta/Georgia: 2011 - property crimes - 3259 / 100 000; Violent - 365 / 100 000 (nothing anecdotal - figures from Georgia Bureau of Investigation web site.

Fact-based conclusion: The lovely happy people of Bonaire commit 2.7 times as much property crimes as do the Georgians, and 4.3 times as many violent crimes.
-------------------------------

And I am going to expand of the topic even further, because after much research and correspondence in trying to understand the problem and seek a solution, I am disappointed by the 'anecdotal' remark and the unsubstantiated "facts" provided in rebuttal by the apologists.

1) Email responses to this thread
Private organisation replies to email - 13 out of 25
Police/administration replies - 0 out of 6 (other than one "I am forwarding ...", EXACTLY the same as that which 'salth2owannabe' received)
= Bonaire authorities couldn't give a crap about tourists. Hard data. Nothing anecdotal

2) When Antilleans (Bonaireans are Antilleans) move to the Netherlands, they are the highest-crime group in the country, beating Turks, the Dutch and Surinamees into also-rans, possibly matched only by young Moroccans. Once they have been subjected to the Dutch culture for a few years their crime rate drops markedly. Conclusion? When subjected to decent public discipline and peer pressure, they learn to behave. [example: http://www.eur.nl/english/news/the_issue/issuearchive/2010/issue_2010_38/]

3) Why can't the same happen on the island? A debate about the problem in 2010 concluded that the alarming rise in criminality on the island was due to drugs - both trafficking and funding own-use. Poverty was a secondary issue. The reason for the failure of the legal system was the 'zelfredsisteem' - or 'save our own people'. http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTHAITI/Resources/CaribbeanC&VChapter7.pdf

Can we draw some conclusions about the astonishingly high crime rate on Bonaire from all that --- non-anecdotal, of course. Please let us know what yours are.

If you quote me, argue against me, not against someone else.

The overall crime rate in my city was 9500/100k year before last. 18 murders per 100k. We're very often listed as the most dangerous city in the US. And my city doesn't get a fair portion of tourists pretty much daily. There's the fact based backing of my statement.

Now, I wonder, why are you here? You pretty much hate on everything about Bonaire.

According to you, the place sucks. Yet you hang out in the Bonaire forum nothing but crying about the place. I don't know what they call that in Spain, but here, we call it trolling. And you're not very good at it.

 

[mmmbelows]

I have a choice too. The chances of me being a victim are less than average.

Thank God 'less than average', that's wonderful.

 

[mmmbelows]

Here you go, Real facts... This is world wide... Bonaire isn't even on it... and More facts that you didn't read from page 24... Eastern Caribbean 2015 Crime and Safety Report
Jim..

Well, of course not, that's because Bonaire is not a sovereign country. Bonaire is a special municipality within the Netherlands. I thought you were an expert on the subject of Bonaire?