Bombs in the Sinai !!

[Paul Evans]

I hate to buck the party line, but I think you're ignoring a few factors.

1. There's a war on. Whether you agree with it, hate it, support it, whatever, it doesn't care. It doesn't even care if you believe it exists or not. By the way, as far as the Islamists are concerned, Europeans are fair game. Remember?

2. Bombs are not addressed to Israelis. They are addressed "to whom it may concern". They are equal opportunity destroyers.

3. None of those people who were killed perceived any risk. The Israeli government had published warnings. Individuals in these hotels adopted the attitude expressed above, "you'll probably be ok. Go have a great time". They chose not to let terrorists dictate what they would and would not do. Oops.

4. Its a big world. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of beautiful dive destinations globally. Given this fact, why deliberately choose to book a vacation in a war zone? WTF are you thinking? Yeah, you can suffer random indignity in any tropical paradise, but you have a significantly reduced probability of encountering rocket propelled grenades in, say, Belize.

Do as you wish, but don't make decisions under the illusion that the war doesn't exist as far as you are concerned. You're a part of it, as far as they are concerned.

Bon voyage,

Doc

Doc, I very much doubt anybody who was in Bali thought they were at risk!


Everywhere is a target :11:

 

[Potapko]

Excellent points! By the way, don't get me wrong...I am not in any way defending crime or terrorism in any sense. Nor will I intentionally insult anyone's beliefs, unless they infringe on my own. I also won't force my own beliefs on anyone else. As to the punishment fitting the crime, I agree wholeheartedly.

I'll go on to Egypt in December with the idea that I'll enjoy wonderful diving and the company of people, though we have different beliefs, with whom I share the bond of brotherhood.

Why not join me!

Phil

I would absolutely 100% love to. We were in Hurgada last December and I did my AOWD. The Red Sea is amazing. I can't wait to get back sometime. But........... We leave on the 8th of December headed back to Maryland for 8 months. So, that plus the 5th little one on the way makes a trip to Egypt this year impossible. I am already hoping for December 2005 though

 

[divebunnie]

Having spent years of my life living and working in central London under the constant threat of IRA bombings, I refuse to let the actions of a bunch of extremist murderers control my life, nor judge all members of a particular religion on the behaviour of a few fanatics.
I do feel the urge to remind people that Egypt is not a war zone, and has in fact often been the location of peace talks between Israel and Palestine.
I would also like to add (as one who actually doesn't watch a huge amount of news) that even I have seen numerous influential representatives of Islam condemning the brutal bombings and terror attacks. Stating that violence plays no part in the Muslim religion.
We can spend our lives running in fear of attacks or we can live our lives to the full. We can also open our eyes and learn that the majority of real people in the world are peace-loving regardless of culture, religion or colour. It is the world rulers that choose to send our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters into battle.
Anyway, back to Egypt… whilst I have not been up to Taba, Sharm is a home from home for me, and I was horrified on hearing the news last week. My thoughts are with all those living and working out there under this new threat, as well as those who have been hurt or lost family or friends. Let's hope sometime in our lifetime, we can find some kind of peace… or am I just a hopeful hippie?

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I refuse to...judge all members of a particular religion on the behaviour of a few fanatics.

Before anyone gets a case of the vapors from indignation, I haven't read a post in this thread that "judges all members of a particular religion on the behavior of a few fanatics".

Not all Irish are members of the Irish Republican Army. But 99.9% of members of the Irish Republican Army are Irish.

Not all Muslims are Islamist fundamentalists. But 99.9% of Islamist fundamentalists are Muslim.

It is no general slur on all members of any population to factually identify any subset of that population as a derivative of the larger whole.

It is a fact that 99.9% of people who are driving large aircraft into tall buildings and beheading kidnap victims on videotape are Muslim.

Stating so is not a slur on all Muslims.

The name Islamist derives from their own writings. These are posted on their websites. Links to these may be easily found, should you doubt that assertion. Search for sites that have videotape posted of blindfolded victims having their heads removed with knives. You will also note on these sites frequent mention of their sincerest hopes that God approves, and, God willing, that they succeed in their objectives for the glory of Islam. Their words. No one elses.

Also used, incidentally, by Reuters, New York Times, Washington Post, etc. who generally tend to avoid slurs of any nature.

You may call something any name you wish. That does not change what it is. The original poster asked about a dive vacation in an area where bombs recently went off. The bombs that went off in the area which you state is not a war zone were not set there by Mormons, Buddists, Wiccans, Quakers, or Presbyterians.

Vaya con Dios,

Doc


PS to Gehadoski. Thank you. I'm aware that this is not the general tenor of Islam. I have no ill will towards Muslims or any other general group. I do have a gripe with those who set bombs for any reasons...

 

[ShakaZulu]

I really hope God picks up his cellphone soon, and call some of these idiots, to set their minds straight............

 

[gehadoski]

Before anyone gets a case of the vapors from indignation, I haven't read a post in this thread that "judges all members of a particular religion on the behavior of a few fanatics".

Not all Irish are members of the Irish Republican Army. But 99.9% of members of the Irish Republican Army are Irish.

Not all Muslims are Islamist fundamentalists. But 99.9% of Islamist fundamentalists are Muslim.

It is no general slur on all members of any population to factually identify any subset of that population as a derivative of the larger whole.

It is a fact that 99.9% of people who are driving large aircraft into tall buildings and beheading kidnap victims on videotape are Muslim.

Stating so is not a slur on all Muslims.

The name Islamist derives from their own writings. These are posted on their websites. Links to these may be easily found, should you doubt that assertion. Search for sites that have videotape posted of blindfolded victims having their heads removed with knives. You will also note on these sites frequent mention of their sincerest hopes that God approves, and, God willing, that they succeed in their objectives for the glory of Islam. Their words. No one elses.

Also used, incidentally, by Reuters, New York Times, Washington Post, etc. who generally tend to avoid slurs of any nature.

You may call something any name you wish. That does not change what it is. The original poster asked about a dive vacation in an area where bombs recently went off. The bombs that went off in the area which you state is not a war zone were not set there by Mormons, Buddists, Wiccans, Quakers, or Presbyterians.

Vaya con Dios,

Doc


PS to Gehadoski. Thank you. I'm aware that this is not the general tenor of Islam. I have no ill will towards Muslims or any other general group. I do have a gripe with those who set bombs for any reasons...

I totally agree with Doc Intrepid, and thank you for considering me. I do really apretiated. People who are doing this in the name of Islam, and they are saying that they are fighting for Isalm. Actually they are giving Isalm wrong and bad repition. What they are doing not mentioned in islam or in any other religion, I am sure of that. I am a muslim and I know my religion and I am telling you this is not what Isalm told us. Islam says to fight and die for piece, to be merciful, to help disabled people, Respect old people..... etc. It didn't say to kill unarmed innocent people innocent people. I know that some people may not like what I am saying but this is the truth.

I know that the moderators may kill me because this way away from diving and this is not the right place. I just wanted to make something clear, so thank you for your time

 

[Jai Bar]

It is most likely that the terror attack was aimed at Israelis. However, from the 33 casualties only 12 were found to be Israelis. The rest were tourists from other countries and Egyptians.
Some famous terror attacks in the near past were aimed at Americans (NY/WTC), Autralians (Indonesia), Spanish (Madrid, not long ago), Russians, Turkish, Indians etc. Terror attacks have happened in countless countries all over the world.

What I am trying to say is that terror attacks are aimed at innocent people, and an exploding bomb does not distinguish between race, religion or nationality. It kills women and children, and the only purpose is to create terror, panic, and anguish.

However, I think that staying at home and avoiding places where terror attacks have happened, is in fact succumbing to terror.
Myself, as an Israeli, I will keep going to Sinai in the future, just as I have in the past, regardless of whatsoever terror attacks have happened in this place. I won't even consider cancelling a vacation to a country just because it had some terror attacks in the past.

 

[DesertEagle]

Of the dead, 14 were Russians, 13 Israelis, 6 Russians and 2 Italians. Nobody expects it to happen to them.

I've been to Sinai numerous times. The last time was almost a year ago. I traveled by taxi from Eilat to Taba to Sharm. I felt much safer in Sharm than in Taba or Dahab. There is more infrastructure and there are many more hotels. What does that mean? One hotel in particular should not be an inviting target. In contrast, Taba is really an extension of Eilat. The Taba Hilton was originally built as a Sonesta when Israel controlled Sinai. During the handover to Egypt, Taba was not included. In 1989, international arbitration sided with Egypt and the hotel became a Hilton. Even though there are other accommodations in Taba, the Hilton stands out.

Until last week I was planning another trip to the area. Most likely I will go to Eilat, Israel instead of Egypt.

 

[mania]

Doc Intrepid I found your post as very much against Muslims in general - which - at least look at Gehadoski - is a very complicated matter - as it is with every nation, religion and so on.
My advise - go there, meet people and then you will see. As I wrote here couple of times - I'm not en expert on the Middle East but taking into account that I visited almost all Middle East countries spending in many of them a bit more time than traditional week of holiday I surely know more than - as it seems - the US government does. At least I speak a little bit of Arabic...
As I don't believe in the "conspiracy of history" it's difficult to believe that Mosad could do it. But on the other hand everything seems to prove that some of the attacks in Russia were done by the Russian secret service and not the Chechens. So everything is possible.
Diverkim - I agree with you on one thing. Israeli government - because it's not the whole nation (worth to remember that Israeli opposition is strongly against most of the actions undertaken lately by the government) - for me doesn't differ much from Palestinians. Both sides are fighting for their land and both are using means that are simply not acceptable in the civilized world.
Mania
PS. Anyway I'm going there for Christmas and New Year and I'm sure I'll spend great time as I do for so many years. I'm also pretty sure that British PM will be there - as he does for the last 2 or 3 years.

 

[Dee]

I'd like to remind everyone to stay on topic. Any and all posts that are purely religious/political will continue to be removed with no warning. Discussions on religion and/or politics always turn ugly at some point so this thread could be pulled altogether...it's up to you.