Boats with Marine Park permits

[DjDiverDan]

I think comparisons of the dive charter industry and taxis are off base. Taxis are usually a monopoly, or at least an oligopoly within a service area.

There is no economic reason for taxi service to be a monopoly or oligopoly. There are no natural barriers to entry. Capital costs are relatively minor - buy a car. Even the cost of a taxi meter is pretty much optional now, the driver can simply quote a fixed price for a given trip, or use a cheap smartphone or tablet with a Google Maps app to determine trip distance. The only reason why taxis are monopolies or oligopolies are government regulations, and again, if you apply any necessary safety standards or consumer protection standards (i.e., no ripping off foreign or out-of-town tourists) equally, no reason at all for governments to put artificial limits on the number of cab licenses. Cities that do restrict the number of cabs or cab companies do so because of rent-seeking operators and politicians willing to be bought with campaign contributions.

 

[ReefHound]

I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said about taxis.

 

[Christi]

OMG people, this is not about us trying to have a monopoly or trying to limit competition. Do you not think 80+ shops on any given day is competition? That's a super lame argument.

There are always permits available if someone wants them and wants to be legal - period.

Not buying bracelets is not a solution YET.

In response to Dan's comment:

But restricting competition like that is an abuse of government power. Set whatever standards are necessary to insure safety, then issue as many permits as there are qualified boat owners and operators who can meet the standards. And impose a fee sufficient to cover enforcement costs.

Wrong, not at all the case. Again, there is no shortage of permits if someone wants to go about forming a legal business and investing the capital to start a business. The permits are a one time cost and then we pay very little annually (in addition to the park fees) to maintain them. The government does not set the cost - each individual owner does. I've seen a set of permits for a 6 pack go for as little as $1000 per seat or as high as $5k per seat - (again, that's lifetime people) or as high as $30k I've heard, but don't know how true it is - that the MP is capping the max that can be charged. Again, I don't know how true that last piece is.

 

[Christi]

Best way to address the enforcement issue is for all legal shops to stop buying the parque marino bracelets...after the shortfall of revenue,maybe then they will send out boats often to check who is legal in the protected Federal Marine Park. Just make sure you have extras on your boat if you do get stopped.

Haha - totally doesn't work like that. They know who has been buying bracelets and know how many divers you have out. So bootleg bracelets aren't an option either. That much is FACT.

 

[DjDiverDan]

OMG people, this is not about us trying to have a monopoly or trying to limit competition. Do you not think 80+ shops on any given day is competition? That's a super lame argument.

There are always permits available if someone wants them and wants to be legal - period.

Question: Does the government set a limit on the total number of permits available? If a new business started and went to the local authorities with all of the necessary paperwork and fees, could it get a permit, regardless of how many permits were already outstanding? Or would that new competitor be told, “sorry, you’ll have to find a current permit holder that is willing to sell it to you, and if you can’t, then you can’t open your new dive shop (or take your boat into the Marine Park)”? Because if it is the latter, then that IS limiting competition, whether there are 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops. The assumption that some arbitrary number, 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops is “enough”, and that competition thereby is sufficient, is “a really lame argument” for limiting new entries.

 

[JFS]

Question: Does the government set a limit on the total number of permits available? If a new business started and went to the local authorities with all of the necessary paperwork and fees, could it get a permit, regardless of how many permits were already outstanding? Or would that new competitor be told, “sorry, you’ll have to find a current permit holder that is willing to sell it to you, and if you can’t, then you can’t open your new dive shop (or take your boat into the Marine Park)”? Because if it is the latter, then that IS limiting competition, whether there are 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops. The assumption that some arbitrary number, 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops is “enough”, and that competition thereby is sufficient, is “a really lame argument” for limiting new entries.

I think Dave from Aldora answered that about Aquaworld. If you have the $ or know the right person you will get new permits.

 

[JFS]

Haha - totally doesn't work like that. They know who has been buying bracelets and know how many divers you have out. So bootleg bracelets aren't an option either. That much is FACT.

Not saying to bootleg, just be like an illegal boat. How many illegal boats have bracelets? If all shops Stop buying the bracelets, then maybe there will be more enforcement? Parque Marino will be out checking boats more often because it is a joke of what they do now. If Parque Marino pulls you over, put your legally obtained bracelets on. They also check your boat qualifications when they stop you... There are a lot of boats in the park with no papers, even foreign registered boats with USA registration that are running tours in the park. The system as it is , is far from protecting what it set out to do in 1996.

 

[scubafanatic]

Haha - totally doesn't work like that. They know who has been buying bracelets and know how many divers you have out. So bootleg bracelets aren't an option either. That much is FACT.

If "They know who has been buying bracelets and know how many divers you have out.", this implies that the authorities are choosing to not enforce the rules, doesn't it? If one is operating illegally, the authorities are allowing it, since they 'know' how many non bracelet buying divers/boats are operating. Maybe payoffs are being made to some other 'authority' ?

 

[scubafanatic]

If you own a permit, of course you have to protect your own business interests. I have no problem with that concept, but putting the onus on customers to ensure they are only using permitted boats is a backwards approach. Most people vote with their wallets and are not going to ask a ton of questions about whether the boat has proper credentials.

I suppose it is also your responsibility, as a tourist, to confirm your dive boat isn't a counterfeit dive boat, that is just happening to use the same name as a legal dive boat, based on the master list of legal boats.

 

[ReefHound]

Question: Does the government set a limit on the total number of permits available? If a new business started and went to the local authorities with all of the necessary paperwork and fees, could it get a permit, regardless of how many permits were already outstanding? Or would that new competitor be told, “sorry, you’ll have to find a current permit holder that is willing to sell it to you, and if you can’t, then you can’t open your new dive shop (or take your boat into the Marine Park)”? Because if it is the latter, then that IS limiting competition, whether there are 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops. The assumption that some arbitrary number, 80 shops or 100 shops or 200 shops is “enough”, and that competition thereby is sufficient, is “a really lame argument” for limiting new entries.

You may call it "limiting competition" but others may call it "resource management". The reefs do not expand because more shops are created. Maybe the idea isn't that xx shops are "enough" for competition but that yy divers are all the reefs can handle without degrading?