Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[wstorms]

Don’t be fooled by no sunblock. On our one day on summer, this year it was May 25th, you can get burnt.

There are a million midges waiting to greet each tourists this year.

In normal years, we visit Gairloch for about 2 weeks. Every season in an hour, some nice easy dives, beautiful nature. Gotta love it

 

[Gareth J]

Award winning Orkney diving charter Scapa Flow, Shetland and Norway. £700 for 6 days including a place to sleep.

It has everything except the sunblock. Our life is not so namby pamby as to wilt with a little zinc.

That particular boat also supplies buckets of hot water for gloves and hoods.
The day boats are £50 to £60 but don’t generally provide gas.

Thank you for the reminder ..... I was supposed to be diving Shetland off her in June.
The upside is they rescheduled our trip for June 2021

 

[Jafo19D]

I can't believe all the controversy and bad attitudes. I guess old ladies shouldn't cross the street because they might need help crossing the street. Doesn't take more than a minute or two to help someone out so I don't understand what's the big deal.

I dive in LATAM and I guess people here are kinder and more gracious than people back home. The crews here are very generous and helpful and don't mind helping those who need it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Some of the best divers (albeit not tech divers) I know, male and female, have had disabilities that forced them to make accommodations. Some were from age, some were from issues they were born with. There are also several folks, one of whom is an amputee, on SB who have shared their experiences going through tech and cave training that I greatly admire and I aspire to be a diver like them, who doesn't let other people make decisions on their capabilities.

I honestly am not sure what you are trying to say here and how you are reacting to my post. I cited a diver in a group I led who needed accommodations and who got them with no problems. I fully support reasonable and appropriate accommodations, not only for diving, but for all aspects of life. In my history in education I saw how accommodations allowed students to thrive when they would have been helpless without them. For example,I once had a severely dyslexic student excel in a college level English class by using reading and writing software, when for his entire school career prior to that he had been limited to reading and writing assignments at his unaccommodated 2nd grade ability.

For my scuba example, I chose not to mention another person who was scheduled to be on a dive trip with me but had to cancel. I did not mention him because I did not get to see how his needs were accommodated--he was a paraplegic with no use of his legs, using special webbed gloves to propel himself while diving. He regularly went on dive trips where those needs were accommodated. I applaud that.

What I was tasking was where one draws the line for "reasonable and appropriate" in terms of accommodations, and I said that line varies by the needs of the dive, the nature of the dives, and ability of the operation to make the accommodations. For example, I was once on a liveaboard where the dive platform was a very small area at the bottom of steep stairs. As a result, no one on that boat had the ability to put on their fins. We all needed accommodation, and we handed our fins to a crew member on the edge of the platform and lifted our feet while he put our fins on. Another example is the elevator lift mentioned in this thread, a device that easily brings divers up to the dive deck, a device that is apparently illegal in the U.S. Without that device, how does a diver who cannot climb a ladder get on the boat? In some cases, it pretty much can't be done.

Finally, I think there is a difference between the needs for accommodations. As I mentioned earlier, I regularly exercise so that I have the strength and endurance necessary for technical diving. I contrast that with someone who does not have that strength and endurance because he or she has chosen not to do such exercise. There is a difference between someone working to overcome a handicapping condition and someone who has made a conscious choice to be feeble and have to rely on others to do something they should be able to do for themselves.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Stopping back to check out this thread again and I see it continues to have a life of its own. I see that it continues to swing WILDLY outside of the lines of the initial context that led to the thread. I've stopped participating on the thread as several of my posts have been regularly taken out of context and made to stand on their own as if they had no initial context at all.

It reminds me of how partisan our world has become. You're forced to one side or the other with very little room for nuance in the middle. You're either a mean, hateful person who doesn't feel any type of accommodation should be allowed or you are for unquestioned accommodation in each and every instance. In reality most of us fall in the middle. Just an observation. It makes you never want to post your opinion at all honesty.

 

[markmud]

Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others. If you can’t do it at all you shouldn’t be boat diving. That may seem harsh but no one HAS to dive. It’s a hobby and if you can’t do it self-sufficiently than you need to pick a different hobby.

I've stopped participating on the thread as several of my posts have been regularly taken out of context...

Did I take your quoted statement out of context? You made a declarative statement that seems to me to be an edict.

Because of your most recent post, I reread the OP's opening post. I don't think most of us are taking this thread off the rails.

Then, a real diving boat should give you the option of being "sherpaed" in and out of the site.
What do you think?

I never gave a concrete black-white-opinion. People who are reasonably fit and healthy may need help getting back aboard the boat, either rec or tech. Sometimes their gear should be doffed in the water and hoisted, or humped, up the ladder by more than one person. That's all I am saying.

"Boat diving, do we have it all wrong?"

In the US of A, I think we do have it all wrong! As proven by our UK friends with their lift equipped vessels. If Wookie is correct, (and I think he is) the laws and USCG need to change.

cheers,
m²V2

 

[Divin'Papaw]

@markmud ... Sorry ... I'm done playing. I've posted more on this thread than that one post. Find them yourself.

Have fun with this thread. It has really gotten completely worthless.

 

[Edward3c]

Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others. If you can’t do it at all you shouldn’t be boat diving. That may seem harsh but no one HAS to dive. It’s a hobby and if you can’t do it self-sufficiently than you need to pick a different hobby.

Try to get back into a RIB without assistance.

 

[DBPacific]

I honestly am not sure what you are trying to say here and how you are reacting to my post.

...

I contrast that with someone who does not have that strength and endurance because he or she has chosen not to do such exercise. There is a difference between someone working to overcome a handicapping condition and someone who has made a conscious choice to be feeble and have to rely on others to do something they should be able to do for themselves.

On your last point we are agreed, and I think that the former person deserves the benefit of the doubt, a chance to do what they love, and accommodations that are not financially or medically threatening to others.

Apologies, I should've been more clear. The only reaction I had to your post specifically was on your observations of perceptions, to remind that the perceptions of how others treat a group you don't belong to can be very different to the perceptions of those groups as to how they are treated. In that specific case, that group is female divers because I have regularly seen women be treated in ways that, frankly, men don't always recognize because they didn't grow up with those perceptions.

The rest of what I was saying was a more general reaction to this thread as a person who needs accommodations. I should've separated my reactions and been more clear what I was reacting to.

 

[boulderjohn]

The only reaction I had to your post specifically was on your observations of perceptions, to remind that the perceptions of how others treat a group you don't belong to can be very different to the perceptions of those groups as to how they are treated. In that specific case, that group is female divers because I have regularly seen women be treated in ways that, frankly, men don't always recognize because they didn't grow up with those perceptions.

Oh, I agree with that. As a male I won't see some things because I am not conditioned to it. What I can say is that in my experience (which will of course be different from your experience) I have seen countless women diving, and I have never seen any instances of an overt expectation that a female would have trouble doing what was expected on a dive because of her gender alone. I was a career educator, a job with more women than men. I saw highly competent individuals and highly incompetent individuals, and gender never had anything to do with that competence. I was also a high school girls' basketball coach for 14 years, so I am fully accustomed to highly skilled, athletic females.