Blue Hole questions

[DandyDon]

Some interesting comments here. I've heard a lot of things. This trip I'll make a point of talking to Stella about the history, and see what she has to say.

Some things I've heard over the years.

* There is a Cavern under the bottom of BH, and if the bottom caves in, it will become over 300feet deep.

Possibly true, as I understand it is a volanic vent. Also been told by a geologist here that there is one under the front parking lot.

* The cavern systems run into Carlsbad caverns.

No way. Those were formed totally differently.

* The Cavern systems run all the way to the Gulf of Mexico.

I can make you a good deal on a bridge. :lol2:

 

[amascuba]

Blue Hole Proposal (PDF FILE) -- Has some good information about the history of the cave system as well as the improvements that were proposed in august 2005 by a marketing group that Santa Rosa hired to see how they could improve their economic environment.

Wikipedia on the Oglala Aquifer -- I believe that the at least some of the water from the Blue Hole cave system flows into the Oglala Aquifer. There is a map on the wikipedia site that shows the size of the aquifer. By looking at the map one would also assume that atleast some of the water from carlesbad caverns also flows into the Oglala Aquifer. Then again I'm not a geologist or a hydrologist. The region does fascinate me though. I would definitely love to know more. There are all kinds of dry caves and apparently sumps in New Mexico.

The cave system does appear to atleast partly run underneath the parking lot of the Blue Hole. The grate covering the cave entrance is on the southeast side of the hole. Although I have noticed some smaller entrances along the sides on the bottom that could suggest that there is even portions of the cave system even below the Blue Hole. I would love to explore the system some day. I imagine it would be a pretty complcated dive though.

One thing that I've threatened to do is to drop a depth gauge into the cave entrance attached to a reel to see how deep it goes directly down. You could also use that as a gause to see if there is any current below the Hole in the cave system, which almost undoubtably there is.

 

[DandyDon]

Blue Hole Proposal (PDF FILE) -- Has some good information about the history of the cave system as well as the improvements that were proposed in august 2005 by a marketing group that Santa Rosa hired to see how they could improve their economic environment.

Super nice! Great find. Saved it to my laptop for future reference. I skimmed several pages - find the ambitions a little excessive, I think, but maybe so.

It's comical that they thought the restroom facilities inadequate. If they were larger and nicer, that'd just be that much more for Vandals to abuse and the city to ignore.

Wikipedia on the Oglala Aquifer -- I believe that the at least some of the water from the Blue Hole cave system flows into the Oglala Aquifer. There is a map on the wikipedia site that shows the size of the aquifer. By looking at the map one would also assume that at least some of the water from Carlsbad caverns also flows into the Oglala Aquifer. Then again I'm not a geologist or a hydrologist. The region does fascinate me though. I would definitely love to know more. There are all kinds of dry caves and apparently sumps in New Mexico.

I've never thought of the Ogala Aquifer reaching that close to Santa Rosa, but perhaps so. I've added a map of New Mexico below to compare to the one on your link.

I do think that Carlsbad Caverns is well outside of it - with the Ogala being east of the Pecos Valley, Carlsbad west, and the valley itself probably being the significant divider. Like you, I'd be interested in what a geologist thinks here. We used to have one posting on this forum. Anyone got his phone #?

Ever been down inside Carlsbad Caverns? Pretty dry as I recall, just barely a "live cave" with some water dripping from sparse rainfalls above.

Btw, I understand that the Santa Rosa Blue Hole and Rock Lake are both volcanic vents, as compared to Carlsbad Caverns being the remains of calcium carbonate rock dissolved by the carbonic acid of rain filtering down over eons, then decorated by stalactites, stalagmites, columns, sheets, etc.

The cave system does appear to atleast partly run underneath the parking lot of the Blue Hole. The grate covering the cave entrance is on the southeast side of the hole. Although I have noticed some smaller entrances along the sides on the bottom that could suggest that there is even portions of the cave system even below the Blue Hole. I would love to explore the system some day. I imagine it would be a pretty complcated dive though.

One thing that I've threatened to do is to drop a depth gauge into the cave entrance attached to a reel to see how deep it goes directly down. You could also use that as a gause to see if there is any current below the Hole in the cave system, which almost undoubtably there is.

 

[RonFrank]

Blue Hole Proposal (PDF FILE) -- Has some good information about the history of the cave system as well as the improvements that were proposed in august 2005 by a marketing group that Santa Rosa hired to see how they could improve their economic environment.

Well, here are a couple of my comments on this proposal (which I had not see before, thanks!).

1000 square feet of space for a Dive shop with retail, instruction, rental gear, and offices? R they on drugs? My home is three times that size, and I *might* be able to get a reasonable facility with 1500 square feet of space.

1000 square feet for just lockers, and a bathrooms? Seems a bit generous considering that they plan on the same size space for office space, retail, etc.

Netting on the sides of the structures, and permanent anchors for divers to hold on to the walls? Do these members of the brain trust dive? Why the heck does anyone need to hang on to anything?

500 square foot cafe? Small seating area is right!

87' deep? Not that anyone I've dove with has recorded. I think I measured 84' by sticking my hand at the bottom of the grate.

High quality name brand hotel in the vacinity of Blue hole? Not sure what they mean by Vacinity, but I would assume they mean walking distance? If not, I guess they don't consider any of the 20 some odd hotels all within a 3~5 minute drive *close*. I guess it could be nice to walk out of the hotel geared up, and jump in, but it also may ruin it to a degree....

I can not even understand their fee structure. Is it per day, per weekend, per week?

If I have to pay $20 bucks a day to dive the hole, it may not be so appealing considering the costs to get down there, stay, eat, etc., add up quick.

I've come to the conclusion that it's NOT OW students that stir up the hole, it's the idiots hitting the bottom, and also the rest of us who dive the bottom, and our bubbles *scrape* this sides.

A locked grate with the keys provided to cave divers? R they insane? I can see the headline now, "Ten Die in traggic accident due to a lost key!"

One manage to handle a dive shop that is open 7 days a week, for 10 hours a day on the weekend. Nothing in the budget for pay increases after the first year? I did not go over the financials in deatil, but that seems VERY light!

Overall I read through a lot of the plan. It seems good. Let's see how things go...

One thing they did miss however is while they might be able to make Blue Hole a better or even Posh diving site, what the heck are they going to do about the rest of Santa Rosa, which could just go by the name of "HOLE". How the heck are they going to polish that turd!

I'm not an individual whom demands luxury on vacation, but I think I'm the exception. One drive through Santa Rosa, and a LOT of people are like Wow, what a pit, let's go to the next stop. A visit to the Bar in the Back of Joseph's on a Saturday night gives one a taste of the locals, who proudly announce, "Hey, we're Rednecks!". :mooner:

We were there last St. Patty's day (Fri Night), and I would estimat that by 10:00pm 1/3 of the people in the place were so drunk, they could not stand up without weaving. It was rather comical watching them dance, or attempt such. One night after a night dive, I was watching as drug dealers where hanging out in the parking lot drinking (this was AT the hole) and exchanging goods. And get this, they were not even divers!

I personally don't really give a rat's tail about all of that! However putting a 4 star resort in a 1/2 star town will NOT attract non-divers, or encourage family members to want to stay.

 

[amascuba]

Well, here are a couple of my comments on this proposal (which I had not see before, thanks!).

1000 square feet of space for a Dive shop with retail, instruction, rental gear, and offices? R they on drugs? My home is three times that size, and I *might* be able to get a reasonable facility with 1500 square feet of space.

That size is probably based off the size of the current dive shop. That shop is probably right around 1000sq/ft.

1000 square feet for just lockers, and a bathrooms? Seems a bit generous considering that they plan on the same size space for office space, retail, etc.

87' deep? Not that anyone I've dove with has recorded. I think I measured 84' by sticking my hand at the bottom of the grate.

I can not even understand their fee structure. Is it per day, per weekend, per week?

If I have to pay $20 bucks a day to dive the hole, it may not be so appealing considering the costs to get down there, stay, eat, etc., add up quick.

I have a permit form filled out and stuffed into my log book. It's been there since February. I haven't needed it all year. I agree though that their payment structure isn't the best and how they spend the money probably doesn't even go to the BH for the most part.

I've come to the conclusion that it's NOT OW students that stir up the hole, it's the idiots hitting the bottom, and also the rest of us who dive the bottom, and our bubbles *scrape* this sides.

Agree. It would also be the "cliff jumpers" jumping into the water and the wakes from the jump pulling sediment into the water from the shore or even stirring up sediment on the walls. I sat and witnessed this one weekend.

A locked grate with the keys provided to cave divers? R they insane? I can see the headline now, "Ten Die in traggic accident due to a lost key!"

From what I understand there are systems like this in florida and it seems to work out for them. There is no reason why it couldn't work here, but it would definitely need to be regulated. I would love the chance to explore the cave systems at the BH. I would go get cave training off at some distant location just so I could make cave dives at the BH.

Overall I read through a lot of the plan. It seems good. Let's see how things go..

It looks as if we have witnessed phase 1 .. or maybe part of it with the dredging. That's turned out well so far. :shakehead

 

[Jasonmh]

...I would go get cave training off at some distant location just so I could make cave dives at the BH.

Alright, you said it, you're now my new cave buddy, since no one else wants to do it

 

[amascuba]

Alright, you said it, you're now my new cave buddy, since no one else wants to do it

Deal.

 

[RonFrank]

Alright, you said it, you're now my new cave buddy, since no one else wants to do it

Well, that just sounds wrong!

 

[Jasonmh]

Well, that just sounds wrong!

Sshhhh.. What James doesn't know "may" not hurt him...

 

[ddavies]

Netting on the sides of the structures, and permanent anchors for divers to hold on to the walls?

I could use a couple of anchors because of the strong current and swell.