Bitterness of Scuba Instructors

[gcarter]

Got it. Point taken.

Like, if I say, "Why are so many doctors in such a big hurry that they don't adequately pay attention to their patients' complaints?", that's a foolish inquiry, because there are as many reasons for hurried physicians as there are hurried physicians?

I don't think it's foolish to ask such a question, but I can see that, in the case of scuba instructors, the answer might be that there are indeed as many reasons for bitterness as there are bitter scuba instructors.

There is one thing foolish about all this, though, and that's that it's probably foolish to ask such a question on a forum full of scuba instructors.

 

[FPDocMatt]

That being said, I put in bold a sentence that, while not outside the TOS, is baiting. No less baiting than, "you should have learned that in your OW," or "do a search."

You're right. That last paragraph was rude. I apologize to all the scuba instructors on the forum, even the bitter ones.

Also, when I said "many", I meant many posters on the forum, not many scuba instructors on the forum. I really have no idea how many instructors there are on this forum, and whether the rude ones have been instructors or non-instructors. Everybody on the forum knows more about scuba diving than I do, and I don't always pay attention to what label a person has under their name when I read their post. I guess I meant "people who teach newbies like me". An instructor is a small subset of those people. For this use of the inaccurate phrase, "many scuba instructors", I apologize as well.

 

[FPDocMatt]

...However, with the use of the word "pervasive" we've all be lumped together. Did anybody actually think of the term "pervasive" in the context it has been used. Do we really have people thinking that "bitterness" towards students is "spread throughout" instructors?

Another apology is in order. I did not really mean "pervasive". I see now that that (along with my other inappropriate remarks in the OP) generalized the problem to all scuba instructors. This was not my intention. I apologize once again.

Gee, at this point, I may as well retract my entire OP.

 

[The Chairman]

Matt,

I thought your OP was just fine. Yes, it got reported for being in the wrong section, but I think it's a subject worthy of our consideration.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Got it. Point taken.

Like, if I say, "Why are so many doctors in such a big hurry that they don't adequately pay attention to their patients' complaints?", that's a foolish inquiry, because there are as many reasons for hurried physicians as there are hurried physicians?

I don't think it's foolish to ask such a question, but I can see that, in the case of scuba instructors, the answer might be that there are indeed as many reasons for bitterness as there are bitter scuba instructors.

There is one thing foolish about all this, though, and that's that it's probably foolish to ask such a question on a forum full of scuba instructors.

Sheesh, open mouth insert foot.

I'm not trying to suggest you're a "fool" Matt, and that's what I get for typing faster than I think I guess. Rather, I'm trying to say people are complex creatures, yet we all tend to like simple answers. The problem with the question isn't that there aren't some instructors who could stand to be less off-putting, but that it seeks to simplify what's complicated to the point of masking reality behind a facade of simplicity.

I apologize for wording that the way I did, Matt. And I hope you can set aside any offense I may have caused.

One thing that hasn't been brought up -- but it should be mentioned -- is that the "life expectancy" of scuba instructors is quite short. Few instructors keep teaching after even a few years. The burn-out rate is very, very high. Long hours, hard work and low pay makes for very short careers.

 

[Rhone Man]

Gee, at this point, I may as well retract my entire OP.

I hope not. It has been an interesting thread. Interesting threads rarely start with a popular or agreeable comment.

 

[gcarter]

Another apology is in order. I did not really mean "pervasive". I see now that that (along with my other inappropriate remarks in the OP) generalized the problem to all scuba instructors. This was not my intention. I apologize once again.

Gee, at this point, I may as well retract my entire OP.

LOL.

If you had not made it, just look at the interesting discussion we would have missed.

This thread has been a great read.

 

[Bob DBF]

You seem to be saying that strong disagreement implies impoliteness, meanness or hostility. I strongly disagree. (See? That wasn't impolite, mean or hostile.)

It is not that strong disagreement implies impoliteness, it is that the reader may take it as impoliteness or a personal attack, especially if the writer is in a hurry, or inept at making his point, or the reader is quite sensitive.

Doesn't seem silly to me at all. I guess it depends on what you mean by criticism. If I say, "The way you teach is dangerous", that's criticism of the way somebody does something, but it isn't criticism of the person. If I say, "You're an unsafe scuba instructor", that's unnecessarily rude.

I believe both comments are rude, by your standards, because there is no discussion of why you came to those conclusions. It is the discussion of differing concepts that is important not labeling a person as dangerous or unsafe.

Unfortunately, you can criticize the person obliquely. That's where the hostility and arrogance are able to squeeze in under the radar of the ToS

But frankly, it would take me about 30 minutes to do a search of this forum and find 10 examples of ad hominem remarks directed against me alone. I don't see anybody criticizing those people for making them. All I see are big thumbs up signs next to them.

Is the second paragraph an example of the concept you are discussing in the first?


You have started a number of very interesting threads and that will get people disagreeing, posting, and reading faster than they can rationally process the information. This causes misunderstandings and no one is immune (except may be Bob Grateful Diver). I find it interesting to reread a thread with the object of learning, when I'm no longer personally invested. It can be illuminating, not only for content, but the personal dynamics including my own.



Bob
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It is necessary for us to learn from others' mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself.
Hyman G. Rickover

 

[FPDocMatt]

Unfortunately, you can criticize the person obliquely. That's where the hostility and arrogance are able to squeeze in under the radar of the ToS.

But frankly, it would take me about 30 minutes to do a search of this forum and find 10 examples of ad hominem remarks directed against me alone. I don't see anybody criticizing those people for making them. All I see are big thumbs up signs next to them.

Is the second paragraph an example of the concept you are discussing in the first?

No. I was asserting that direct and obvious ad hominem remarks are not infrequent.

 

[ozzydamo]

Semi related story: a friend of mine who was a lawyer got laid off during the Lehman's criss and he retrained as a plumber. Although he makes slightly less money now, it is only slightly less (helped by the fact that, like most plumbers, he does a lot of cash work that does not make it all the way through to his tax return), but only works 2/3rds of the hours he used to work. He wishes he had gotten the sack years ago.

Now try that with a Goldman sachs banker!