Bikini Atoll, deep air for everyone
- Thread starter MikeFerrara
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JamesK
Contributor
That's great. I could do that the first time I tried. Would that have made me qualified to deal with a 180' dive? Heck no. I don't see that as much of an exam at all. It will weed out only the divers who should not have been certified in the first place.
donacheson
Contributor
You're trying to read something into my statement that isn't there. Passing the "entrance exam" is a pass only to get on the boat and dive the usual sites. "Over the Wall" or "Nitro Express" is by invitation only. FWIW, neither my daughter nor I thought the dive was a big deal - fun to do once or twice, that's all.
I don't know what criteria the dive staff uses to select people for that dive; maybe WreckWriter could shed some light on that.
JamesK
Contributor
Oops. Sorry about that. I thought I had to be missing something.
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It was basically occasionally offered to long-term guests, repeat guests, etc. Only offered to folks who had done several dives with us and who the DMs agreed was up to it.
Tom
Scuba Jim
Contributor
Everyone,
I know I am a little late coming in on this topic (I have only just joined Scuba board!), but I thought I would give you the benefit of my experience.
Firstly I will come clean and say I am in the dive travel business; I run a travel agency in the UK and we are the European agents for Bikini. I will give you an honesy opinion of the way things work and how safe it is.
Firstly, the dive operation has been running for some 7 years. in that time I believe they have only had one bends case, and this came about becuase the guy in question went jogging in the heat of the day every lunchtime and was secretly snacking on a large case of bag-in-box wine that he and his wife had brought over on the flight and were guzzling in their room at night! So he was not only hung over, he was dehydrated and made the situation worse by jogging in the heat of the day.
The dive diving runs like this:
Nitrox is uselss on any of the dives because they are too deep. You dive on air and have the choice of single Alis or twin steels with isolation manifolds. The single tanks have Y-valves so you can attach 2 regs.
The dive itself is done with this air supply and you return to the deco station to decompress from an 80% mix that is sent from the boat by whips. each person has their own reg to breath from and can stay there as long as they want.
The deco rig is set up with 3 levels - 30, 20 & 10ft. EVERY dive has a mandatory stop of 3, 5 & 10 minutes for each level respectively, regardless of whether you computer says otherwise. On some of the deeper dives a 5 monute stop at about 80ft is also done.
If you have a cmputer that allows you so switch mixes underwater (say a Nitek3) then you can do that, if not then you obvisouly set your computer to air if you have a Nitrox computer and dive the profile that the computer says you should dive. Your computer thinks tyou are decompressing on air, your body KNOWS you are decompressing on Nitrox. You are therefore building in a largemargin of safety.
As for the narks. Well they can happen at any time and at any depth. I have been narked at 110ft when the water was cold but viz was food, and also when the water was warm and the viz was mad. I did not feel narked in the sligthest at Bikini - for starters, you are bowled over by the size of the wrecks!
The combination of clear warm waters and zero current combine to make the narks much more unlikely. But it could still happen to you, it all depends! And it could happen to ou while you are kicking against a strong current in Vancouver sound on a chilly March morning! But you might still do that dive!
As for the wrecks, well Saratoga is an amazing dive, yes. But in my opinion the Nagato is more impressive (16" guns, 20ft props) and the Lamson is the best - you dive this ship and get to know why they were called destroyers!
Anyway, this thread may well be dead now, but that's my 2 pennies worth.
If you can afford it, do it.
Regards
Jim
I know I am a little late coming in on this topic (I have only just joined Scuba board!), but I thought I would give you the benefit of my experience.
Firstly I will come clean and say I am in the dive travel business; I run a travel agency in the UK and we are the European agents for Bikini. I will give you an honesy opinion of the way things work and how safe it is.
Firstly, the dive operation has been running for some 7 years. in that time I believe they have only had one bends case, and this came about becuase the guy in question went jogging in the heat of the day every lunchtime and was secretly snacking on a large case of bag-in-box wine that he and his wife had brought over on the flight and were guzzling in their room at night! So he was not only hung over, he was dehydrated and made the situation worse by jogging in the heat of the day.
The dive diving runs like this:
Nitrox is uselss on any of the dives because they are too deep. You dive on air and have the choice of single Alis or twin steels with isolation manifolds. The single tanks have Y-valves so you can attach 2 regs.
The dive itself is done with this air supply and you return to the deco station to decompress from an 80% mix that is sent from the boat by whips. each person has their own reg to breath from and can stay there as long as they want.
The deco rig is set up with 3 levels - 30, 20 & 10ft. EVERY dive has a mandatory stop of 3, 5 & 10 minutes for each level respectively, regardless of whether you computer says otherwise. On some of the deeper dives a 5 monute stop at about 80ft is also done.
If you have a cmputer that allows you so switch mixes underwater (say a Nitek3) then you can do that, if not then you obvisouly set your computer to air if you have a Nitrox computer and dive the profile that the computer says you should dive. Your computer thinks tyou are decompressing on air, your body KNOWS you are decompressing on Nitrox. You are therefore building in a largemargin of safety.
As for the narks. Well they can happen at any time and at any depth. I have been narked at 110ft when the water was cold but viz was food, and also when the water was warm and the viz was mad. I did not feel narked in the sligthest at Bikini - for starters, you are bowled over by the size of the wrecks!
The combination of clear warm waters and zero current combine to make the narks much more unlikely. But it could still happen to you, it all depends! And it could happen to ou while you are kicking against a strong current in Vancouver sound on a chilly March morning! But you might still do that dive!
As for the wrecks, well Saratoga is an amazing dive, yes. But in my opinion the Nagato is more impressive (16" guns, 20ft props) and the Lamson is the best - you dive this ship and get to know why they were called destroyers!
Anyway, this thread may well be dead now, but that's my 2 pennies worth.
If you can afford it, do it.
Regards
Jim
OP
From what I understand they will take AOW certified divers on these dives. Redundant equipment like H-valves are useless unless you are trained to use them. You must be practiced at manipulating your valves and know what to manipulate. Without that training you have just doubled the number of failure points. These divers are totally dependant on the guid to get them home from 170 ft. Should something happen and the dive plan gets blown or something happens to the guid or a diver is seperated they are not trained to think their way to the surface. They are not prepared to take resposibility for the dive. If you are not comfortable completing a dive alone than you have no business in the water. I don't care what the safety record is the logic in flawed. It's like cave tours for divers without any cave training. Can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? IMO NO. And I haven't even got to the subject of narcosis at 170 ft.
Scuba Jim
Contributor
Hi Mike
I appreciate what you are saying, but the chances of a diver with no experience of H-valves turning up at Bikini with the relevant equipment to use H-valves is faiulry reomte, I think you will agree? Most poeple who can dive with twins & backplates have used the stuff before and know how to use it. Those who haven't used it before are unlikely to "borrow" the right gear to do so just for Bikini. The alternative is Y-valves on a single tank. If the o-ring goes on one of the regs you can switch to the other and, if you can reach it, turn the offending valve off or ask your buddy to do the honours.
The dives are all supervised by 2 divemasters. If the island is full (11 people max) the group is split into 2 so there are no more than 6 divers to each guide.
There are 1000s of divers out there who are not even "capable" of getting back to the surface from 70ft, let alone 170ft. Do they dive? Yes. Should they dive - in your opinion, no! But they do.
The bottom line is, you have the choice to go or not, as the case maybe. If one doesn't like the way something is done then obviously one doesn't do it!
regards
Jim
I appreciate what you are saying, but the chances of a diver with no experience of H-valves turning up at Bikini with the relevant equipment to use H-valves is faiulry reomte, I think you will agree? Most poeple who can dive with twins & backplates have used the stuff before and know how to use it. Those who haven't used it before are unlikely to "borrow" the right gear to do so just for Bikini. The alternative is Y-valves on a single tank. If the o-ring goes on one of the regs you can switch to the other and, if you can reach it, turn the offending valve off or ask your buddy to do the honours.
The dives are all supervised by 2 divemasters. If the island is full (11 people max) the group is split into 2 so there are no more than 6 divers to each guide.
There are 1000s of divers out there who are not even "capable" of getting back to the surface from 70ft, let alone 170ft. Do they dive? Yes. Should they dive - in your opinion, no! But they do.
The bottom line is, you have the choice to go or not, as the case maybe. If one doesn't like the way something is done then obviously one doesn't do it!
regards
Jim
I went to Bikini in May. You can see my report here: Bikini Report
BTW I am TDI Deco and IANTD advanced nitrox certified.
They dive with twin 13l or Single 17l - I don't recall seeing H valves.
The DM's were superb - Tim and Mike.
Yes there was one AOW diver, he did not come with our group by booked separately. It was actually his second trip having been there in the first year of operation. He acknowledged his lack of training and was very responsible - passing on certain part of dives etc. The guy we had most issues with was a tech wannabe in all his brand new gear not really knowing how to confgure and not taking advice from the very experienced DM's, our trip leader (this guy was another tag-along) and the various intructors in our group.
If you are an AOW and are responsible - i.e. listen to the briefings, acknowledge your limitations and not be a know-it-all then it is possible and I believe safe to do this trip. If you don't Tim won't let you dive - simple.
No one dived without a mix gas computer or appropriate tables.
I think we also had a couple of DIR guys on the trip - but they were keeping very quiet about that - does that make them a stroke?
Jonathan
BTW I am TDI Deco and IANTD advanced nitrox certified.
They dive with twin 13l or Single 17l - I don't recall seeing H valves.
The DM's were superb - Tim and Mike.
Yes there was one AOW diver, he did not come with our group by booked separately. It was actually his second trip having been there in the first year of operation. He acknowledged his lack of training and was very responsible - passing on certain part of dives etc. The guy we had most issues with was a tech wannabe in all his brand new gear not really knowing how to confgure and not taking advice from the very experienced DM's, our trip leader (this guy was another tag-along) and the various intructors in our group.
If you are an AOW and are responsible - i.e. listen to the briefings, acknowledge your limitations and not be a know-it-all then it is possible and I believe safe to do this trip. If you don't Tim won't let you dive - simple.
No one dived without a mix gas computer or appropriate tables.
I think we also had a couple of DIR guys on the trip - but they were keeping very quiet about that - does that make them a stroke?
Jonathan
dlarbale
Contributor
I know several AOW divers who are better divers than some DM's and Instructors. Whenever I dive with someone I don't know I assume that they're crap and baby sit them through everything - does it p&ss some people off, sure does, have I ever been caught out underwater - not yet!
Certificates, # of dives, max depth etc mean nothing, did you hear that NOTHING. Someone who's an OW diver with 10 dives in ripping current will deal with it better than a Dive Master with 100 dives in no current - period, trust no-one and definately don't trust certification levels.
Dave.
Certificates, # of dives, max depth etc mean nothing, did you hear that NOTHING. Someone who's an OW diver with 10 dives in ripping current will deal with it better than a Dive Master with 100 dives in no current - period, trust no-one and definately don't trust certification levels.
Dave.
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