Bikini Atoll, deep air for everyone

[donacheson]

Originally posted by voidware
donacheson, I don't mean to flame, but how could you say a dive like that is safe? In my head, that's ridiculous. I could see taking students on a guided deco (possibly), but --really-- deep air and then deco. That's incredibly dangerous.

Now I am not trained in any sort of deco, deep air, or mix, so my opinion is just that.

brandon

If by safe you mean there's a guarantee every diver will always return unthreatened and uninjured, then it's not safe. You appear to be talking about students; I'm not.

Dives deeper than 130 feet are done with great regularity all over the world without remarkable death or injury rates. Wreck diving in North and South Carolina, Truk , Vanuatu, and many other places daily take many divers to 180 feet and deeper. To boot, many of these are accomplished with a single Al80. Riskier than a pool dive? Sure. Do divers occasionally get bent? You bet. Suicidal? I think not.

IMHO, it's up to each diver to assess both his or her readiness to handle a dive and the risks associated with it. Like many experienced divers, I've seen certified divers who weren't prepared and would put themselves and everyone around them at great risk in jumping into four feet of water.

Incidentally, the dive operation WreckWriter was referring to has an interesting policy - they don't want to see C-cards, but they do require all divers new to them to take an "entrance exam". It consists of gearing up, jumping into 4 or 5 feet of water, kneeling, removing both mask and regulator, holding both out at arms' length, then putting both back and clearing them. Pass the exam and you can dive with them; fail it and you're offered free lessons. WreckWriter is in a better position than I to tell you what fraction of certified divers fail the exam the first time. I know some, even after instruction, never succeed.

 

[voidware]

Clearly, it is one thing to take a trained, experienced diver, with doubles and preferrably accelerated mixes (for extra redundancy) and go to 180 feet salt water. Its clearly not suicide.

But with untrained, vacation divers there are not very good odds, especially for the divers I've seen (even the ones that could easily pass the entrance exam). Death could come in so many ways--inexperienced divers, narced out of their minds, below even TDI's definition of "extended range," on AL80's. Imagine the threat to the DMs.

I guess darwin's law must take its toll. Consider it a service to the gene pool.

You can count on one thing: you won't see mee much below 130 on air, especially on an AL80.

brandon

 

[padiscubapro]

Originally posted by ericfine50
I know its not Bikni, but I think you can now get Mix on Truk. I think it is a land based operation and if you have enough time, can also get it for live aboard trips to.

Eric

I was just there in March.. No one had mix.. If you want it you have to make arrangements yourself (shipped cargo from guam)well in advance.. Plan on spending at least $750 for a single K cylinder of He, and then you still have to arrange to get it shipped back to Guam..

 

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by voidware
But with untrained, vacation divers there are not very good odds, especially for the divers I've seen (even the ones that could easily pass the entrance exam). Death could come in so many ways--inexperienced divers, narced out of their minds, below even TDI's definition of "extended range," on AL80's. Imagine the threat to the DMs.

I guess darwin's law must take its toll. Consider it a service to the gene pool.

You can count on one thing: you won't see mee much below 130 on air, especially on an AL80.

brandon

AL80s? Try steel 72s with J-valves. This was quite a few years ago. When I first heard the plan I was beyond shocked and thought it was almost certain to lose a few. I saw hundreds of people do it though with no problems. Advocate it? Hell no, just remember it.

Things were different then and things were different there.

Tom

 

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by donacheson
WreckWriter is in a better position than I to tell you what fraction of certified divers fail the exam the first time.

As I recall it was about 10%. Worse rate than those who had taken the "resort course".

As I understand it things have changed over there in the last few years. Diving is now done in a way which fits standard practices much better. I haven't been there in 15 years or so so can't say for sure.

Tom

 

[Okiecaver]

Originally posted by MikeFerrara
Okiecaver,
Florida trip is in the past. We dove Mine Lamotte the last two weekends. Looking to head back to Missouri the last weekend in may if not sooner. We can't wait to dive Roubidoux. Also if your interested we're diving the Wisconsin on the 11th. We ended up with a spot open. !00 to the deck, 130 to the bottom (outside) and 150 to the bottom inside. We'll be mixing it.

Mike

Oh. Duhhh.

Weekend of the 11th I'll be at Mine laMotte with trainees. This weekend I'll be busy doing some caving and survey training.

Wisconsin sounds great! I'll definitly take a raincheck!

Best rule of thumb for springs is to check the local weather around Ft Leonard Wood for Roubidoux and Poplar Bluff for Cannonball. You want at least 10 days with no appreciable rainfall to give the springs time to settle down. By the end of May they start to clear out and slow down again.

Keep in touch and let me know how the wreck diving goes!

Dive safe
Brock

 

[donacheson]

Originally posted by WreckWriter


Correct. How long ago were you there? Who were your divemasters (first names only please)?

Tom

Looks like I missed your post to me last time I was here. Sorry about that.

I was last there in February '99, but didn't do "Over the Wall" on that visit. I don't recall the names of the divemasters there - other than Moose and Peter, of course.

 

[WreckWriter]

Originally posted by donacheson
I was last there in February '99, but didn't do "Over the Wall" on that visit. I don't recall the names of the divemasters there - other than Moose and Peter, of course.

Moose was just a kid when I was there! I only met him once as he was away at school. Peter of course I know well. A fine individual if there ever was one.

When I was there it was myself, Brad and Jeff (not Dick's son Jeff)working for Peter. I was there around 1984 (?)

Tom

 

[donacheson]

Originally posted by WreckWriter


Moose was just a kid when I was there! I only met him once as he was away at school. Peter of course I know well. A fine individual if there ever was one.

When I was there it was myself, Brad and Jeff (not Dick's son Jeff)working for Peter. I was there around 1984 (?)

Tom

Moose married a handsome woman. During my last visit, Peter was busy lobbying for government action to create a marine preserve about 6 miles long along the wall. Brad was there during my first visit in in late 1993, but was handling the specialty dives at that time. When I went back in mid-1994, he had gotten engaged and moved on (or was about to move on, I can't recall).

BTW, Dick's Jeff suffered a great tragedy. His youngest, a daughter, fell off her tricycle and died of a brain hemmorage. Jeff and his wife later divorced, probably as a result of the loss. Very sad stuff.

I'll go back again, but I don't know when. I tried about a year ago, but they were full when I wanted to go.

 

[WreckWriter]

I'm very happy that Moose and Peter are doing well (is Peter Mayor of Fresh Creek yet?) and that Brad is still kicking around, even if not there. I also left due to engagement.

I am terribly sorry to hear about Jeff's daughter. I believe I heard somewhere that he and Patti had split up. I visit the website once in awhile to try to keep up with news. While I was there they accepted me into the family and treated me like I was theirs. Part of me will always be there with them. Someday I too will go back.

Tom