Biggest thing killing dive shops?

[mdb]

Sure, but 2014, 2015 and 2017 profits aren't that impressive. I'd expect one of the biggest scuba manufacturers to be making more money for its shareholders than that. Unless, of course, there's some creative accounting involved which deflates profit.

The Scubapro information is, most likely, a indicator of the current state of the SCUBA industry.

Air Liquide, after decades of ownership, sold AQUA-LUNG to a venture capital firm. Oceanic and Hollis
sold to HUISH (Who now has multiple overlapping lines)-how many different BC's, regs and computers
will be stocked by the very stressed Retailers?

Many stores closed, PADI bought and resold multiple times due to their profits and cash flow.

Actual NEW divers down every year for several years.

The decline continues to accelerate. This harsh winter will not help.

 

[Steve_C]

you can get objective reviews/opinions from a range of fellow divers online (who have no vested interest in what you buy),

I find the idea that a bunch of reviews from unknown folks comes with no vested interest naive. There is a small army of folks manipulating ratings online.

 

[Cert1967]

Problem with most local dive shops is that you have one store that is "PADI and Aqualung", one that is "NAUI and Scubapro", one that is "SSI and Mares", and they are all pitched against each other trying to say that PADI is better than NAUI, and Aqualung sucks you should buy Mares etc. Never talking about pros and cons of each, just my stuff is better than his.
This is made worse that when you go into most LDS's they don't actually maintain good inventory so when you want to buy something, they have to order it.

@tbone1004

It's the financials. And the financials reflect the industry. Most small shops are done. Small shops are rarely saleable and offer limited ROI potential. Not even a decent paycheck.

Lack of capital, low sales, low margins = what you say. Look at the biz for sale upstream. Is it typical of a small mom-and-pop scuba store? The numbers just don't work. The atmosphere is poisoned in a small shop that desperately needs everyone that comes through the door to buy or order/pay for what they don't have in stock.

DRIS, CA - rolling up the sales of their small competitors. You have seen the USPS pickups from CA, right? Impressive isn't it? DRIS's marketing presence for December - sucking up more industry dollars.

Storefront operation with less than 1m in sales and a primary hardgoods emphasis - hard to make a buck. Even with a majority of sales coming from services - swim lessons, certs, travel - simply no enough gross margin dollars.

No wonder DMs and Instructors are paid poorly - the do-re-me just isn't there.

 

[dmaziuk]

Most shops in California pay huge rents, huge insurance, higher wages to compensate for cost of living, and CA also has the highest taxes and the highest workers comp. All this adds up.
...
And then there’s the 8.5% sales tax, used to be almost 10% in some areas.

I wonder how much "labour cost and taxes killing businesses" are an US'ian "conservative" propaganda spiel. I've a feeling that if all of those costs and taxes end up in the pocket of the very few very rich "corporate persons", then it is as you say "hope for very rich customer who wants to get a scuba cert".

 

[JamesBon92007]

Back in June of 1959, skin diver Robert Pamperin was killed by a probable great white shark off La Jolla in San Diego just when The Dive Locker opened with $5,000 seed money. No one went diving that summer. But, the shop survived its lackluster grand opening and many legends worked there and passed through its doors over the years. Today, it isn't the fear of sharks scaring away customers in California. The type of person that took up diving in the early days wouldn't be afraid of the shop owners, their own spouses, or life off the couch.

When I was a kid at La Jolla cove I was told a story about a diver who was swallowed whole while wearing double tanks. Same story? I was told the story at the cove but remember it being verified at the Diving Locker. I assumed at the time it was a monster story just to scare kids. I heard the story around 1965.

For me one of the main things that keeps me from diving SoCal is the pollution.

http://documents.latimes.com/report-almost-half-l-count-beaches-fs/

 

[tbone1004]

@Cert1967 I have certainly seen the pickups, but it did start as a small shop, in the middle of nowhere, by a guy with a passion for scuba diving, much like all of them. Edd had an advantage that he had sold a successful business to help self-finance his inventory, but he also made himself his own brand and "sold" his shop to divers and that is what has made him so successful. Same with John at NESS, but they were on the web-front early and have made sure people are happy so word of mouth marketing has done very well for them.
Mike chose to basically be the LeisurePro of the mid-west, and it is working very well for them. Other shops could have chosen to do the same, but they didn't, and that is the lack of adaptation. They are now in a position of too little, too late and just can't compete with the better established companies.

What do those shops do? I don't know, but I know that if I were in Raleigh, I sure as hell wouldn't try to compete with Gypsy, I'd try to work with them to help us both out. In Greenville I wouldn't bother going against Bermuda Triangle or Lake Jocassee Scuba, no point because the pot isn't big enough.

Interestingly, one of the curious ones now is in cave country with Cave Excursions and Dive Outpost. Both have pros and cons, with Outpost having the better location and "hang out" atmosphere, Excursions having a better fill station. It would be ideal if Excursions and Outpost merged or one bought the other, but it is highly unlikely to happen. Too much "us vs. them" attitude at both shops though it is much better than it was 10-20 years ago. Both of those survive because of their proximity to Peacock, nothing more. Thankfully there are enough divers to keep both in business, but if they were anywhere else, they'd be gone for failure to adapt

 

[Compressor]

Its the business model as mentioned above by many folks. Its also difficult to find students who want to learn. Allow me to explain before slamming me.

I was an independent instructor for a long time. I gave the local dive shot the equipment business in return for allowing me to use their pool. Then they asked for significant amount of $$ in return. I did not want to charge the students large sums of money so they lost me and my students.

Also over the past 2 decades, I found students less interested in learning the sport. I refused to certify someone who I thought would be a danger to themselves. Truthfully, I wasn't hard on the students. If they made an genuine effort I would go out of my way to help them. It takes 2 to tango as the saying goes. The attitude was I paid for class and I expect a card at the end. I think the picture is clear.

Unfortunately, I think the sport is in decline. There are still plenty of dedicated people who are and want to be superb divers. Perhaps the industry is cycling.

 

[drrich2]

I'm not for excluding anyone but I resent all the bossy people telling us how to dive when they are a train wrecks. And then they all booze it up late at night on vacation and show up at the boat half dead but have a heart attack if my husband and I want to split a Corona with our fish taco off site. I think dive shops have a culture and too many have gone the direction of pushing gear and rules (classes) without the foundation of good self discipline and setting a good example.
I am just saying that the scuba industry has an image problem as I see it and I have been very involved for many years (VI, Hawaii, California)
My husband and I both love diving and I am trying to explain what turned us off (from most dive businesses) even though we have a lot of great "diving friends" --the establishments generally evolve to something many do not want to seek out or pay for.
IF someone said "why did you eventually get out of horse shows?" I could provide that answer as well..

Thanks, I think I understand now. You don't like the regimented 'nanny state' culture of many dive op.s. I'm not so sure that's driven by legions of unfit divers (after all, more fit people are sometimes more daring & willing to take on more adverse conditions), but by liability avoidance.

I'm glad you mentioned California. My trip out there, & from reading about that region's diving, I learned the dive culture seems less nanny state, more 'You're an adult; make your own choices.' I could dive solo irrespective of a solo cert. (though I have one), and nobody was checking computers on return to the boat to confirm at least 500 PSI, a max. depth not exceeded or no deco. violation, etc... I, too, prefer personal liberty over nanny state intrusiveness.

I find the idea that a bunch of reviews from unknown folks comes with no vested interest naive. There is a small army of folks manipulating ratings online.

Yes. I still believe many reviews are useful, and especially so if you consider the 3 or 4/5 star reviews with more critical analysis, or reviews on Scuba Board as opposed to storefront sites (e.g.: Amazon, Leisure Pro, etc...). On the other hand, at the LDS, what are the odds people in the store will openly diss the merchandise & endorse competitor products? A large online vendor likely stocks the competitor's product, too, so it's not a big deal to him which brand you buy (long as he sells it). A LDS likely won't offer as many brand alternatives.

Richard.

 

[dmaziuk]

I find the idea that a bunch of reviews from unknown folks comes with no vested interest naive. There is a small army of folks manipulating ratings online.

"I received this product or service free in exchange for my honest and unbiased review, and my honest and unbiased review is..."

They are fairly easy to spot, actually, if you know what you're looking at.

 

[Mrs. B]

Thanks, I think I understand now. You don't like the regimented 'nanny state' culture of many dive op.s. I'm not so sure that's driven by legions of unfit divers (after all, more fit people are sometimes more daring & willing to take on more adverse conditions), but by liability avoidance.

I'm glad you mentioned California. My trip out there, & from reading about that region's diving, I learned the dive culture seems less nanny state, more 'You're an adult; make your own choices.' I could dive solo irrespective of a solo cert. (though I have one), and nobody was checking computers on return to the boat to confirm at least 500 PSI, a max. depth not exceeded or no deco. violation, etc... I, too, prefer personal liberty over nanny state intrusiveness.



Yes. I still believe many reviews are useful, and especially so if you consider the 3 or 4/5 star reviews with more critical analysis, or reviews on Scuba Board as opposed to storefront sites (e.g.: Amazon, Leisure Pro, etc...). On the other hand, at the LDS, what are the odds people in the store will openly diss the merchandise & endorse competitor products? A large online vendor likely stocks the competitor's product, too, so it's not a big deal to him which brand you buy (long as he sells it). A LDS likely won't offer as many brand alternatives.

Richard.

I was just using the fitness issue as one example of "nanny culture." I agree with you about California dive culture and I think that has to do with surf culture (it is dangerous solo activity that young kids grow up doing "alone" etc)
Diving with some very small boats in Mexico is relatively less rigid also. I just never liked the medical questions from non-medical people, for their liability, when I never query the guy dropping me off for a drift on Peleliu...Its one-sided and yet I am the paying customer. It is offensive. Can you imagine other businesses doing that? Maybe they should be showing me their credentials and health status. There whole thing is just out of control.