Best type of Pony Tank setup?
- Thread starter Zac3G
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No problem... take your time... thinking is good.
R
redacted
Guest
1. You are under no obligation to come to its aid.
2. You don't have to wait for it.
3. It won't surprise you.
4. You can ditch it.
5. It will always be right where you last saw it.
6. It won't change its mind.
7. It won't try to talk you into anything stupid.
And yes, with the exception of #1, the others are not "good buddy" traits. But not all divers get to pick their buddies and not all buddies are good.
2. You don't have to wait for it.
3. It won't surprise you.
4. You can ditch it.
5. It will always be right where you last saw it.
6. It won't change its mind.
7. It won't try to talk you into anything stupid.
And yes, with the exception of #1, the others are not "good buddy" traits. But not all divers get to pick their buddies and not all buddies are good.
Uncle Pug:
Pug
On the sober side, (are you sober now?) can you be suggesting it is better to be without a redundant air source than with one? That's what it sounds like. Before I ever got my o/w, I was a passenger on a private boat where an experienced diver had a rapid depressurization from a leak in their hp hose. Had to ditch and make emergency ascent. I think I will stick with my pony.
Peter
IF you have a so called *rapid depressurization from a leak in your hp hose*freborg:
1. How rapid would that depressurization actually be given the very small orifice at the regulator end of the hose that prevents rapid depressurization... oooops... I gave that one away.
2. How deep would you be with 90% of your gas left and how long would you have to make a controlled ascent?
3. How deep would you be with 20% of your gas left and how long would you have to make a controlled ascent?
4. Would you ever be deeper than you could make a controlled ascent with only 20% of your gas left?
5. Why would you need to ditch your rig and make an emergency ascent?
You Peter, like many, are making the assumption that your pony will protect you from poor decision making. It won't.
BTW... I do carry a redundant *air* source and on recreational dives and it is right in there with the rest of my back gas... I know its there because I can see it with my SPG.
Uncle Pug:
The regulator first stage has a very small orifice where the HP hose attaches, but the LP ports and hoses by design flow a lot of air. If the hose rupture is serious, air could be dumped VERY quickly. Take an LP port plug out of a MK 20 or Mk 25 and open the valve and you will be losing air at 300 cu ft /min. An additional lenght of hose won't slow that down much. So losing the contents of an 80 cu ft tank in under a minute at depth is a possibility.
Potentially a minute or less. You don't have to be very deep at all to kiss a normal ascent goodbye.
Same as number 2 but worse.
Most likely - even within recreational limits.
He did not ditch his "rig"... he "ditched" his weights. I agree though that may not have been the best possible response to the problem.
You have the right idea here and I understand what you mean, but you are not looking at the whole picture. The assumption is in one sense, although not in the sense you mean, quite correct. A pony does allow the diver the option to stop, breathe and think before acting without having to fret about his or her only air supply bubbling away. In my experience the first response to virually any emergency short of a great white ripping you in half would be to stop and think before you do something stupid that may make the situation worse.
Consequently an adequately sized pony actually does offer some protection from poor decision making as it removes much of the stress imposed by limited time, or in some cases just the perception of limited time, in which to determine the problem, develop an optimum solution, and carry it out successfully. You don't even have to get into the additional options that a pony allows in terms of potential solutions to the problem to derive benefit from the pony in a stressful OOA situation.
Correct me if I misunderstand, but I think the heart of your argument is that a pony will induce a false sense of security and confidence that will cause the diver to do something stupid. I agree that a pony is a not a cure for stupidity and that being stupid with a pony is almost as likely to get you dead as being stupid without a pony. But that does not mean that all divers who use ponies must be stupid.
A pony is like any other piece of scuba equipment, it is not neccesarily good or bad but rather needs to be used intelligently to do you any good.
And my questions that you answered with a different scenario than the one originally put forward still make the point. A blown hp hose does not empty the tank and preclude a slow controlled ascent. The thoughtful response would be neither to dump the weights nor grab the pony but to inform your buddy of the situation and make a controlled ascent using the back gas available.DA Aquamaster:
Many folks who claim that they use their pony bottles intelligently and responsibly will, when pressed, admit that they do not regularly (if ever) practice the scenarios they claim to be carrying a pony to mediate.
Boogie711
Guest
Which is exactly the point Pug is making - by never touching the thing, you're just fooling yourself. You've got a security blanket that, when needed, you haven't practiced deploying, you don't know if it's working, etc. etc. etc.freborg:
My vote goes for situational awareness and diving as a team.
On the other hand, WHEN I dive a single with a pony, I HAVE (and do) practice its use.
I have simulated a complete loss of breathing gas in my primary tank (by simply removing my primary reg and clipping it off) at 100', drawn the pony, and made a normal ascent.
I made it to safety stop depth, and noted that I had more than enough gas remaining to do a normal 5 minute stop there. Point made, I secured the pony and switched back to my (actually working) backgas.
I've done this several times; I know where "the wall" is, and that at depths over 60' or so I must begin that ascent IMMEDIATELY to make my normal ascent profile work on the gas available, so going back to the upline, etc is not on the agenda if I need to draw it.
It of course is (mostly) useless in an overhead; for those environments I use doubles.
I have simulated a complete loss of breathing gas in my primary tank (by simply removing my primary reg and clipping it off) at 100', drawn the pony, and made a normal ascent.
I made it to safety stop depth, and noted that I had more than enough gas remaining to do a normal 5 minute stop there. Point made, I secured the pony and switched back to my (actually working) backgas.
I've done this several times; I know where "the wall" is, and that at depths over 60' or so I must begin that ascent IMMEDIATELY to make my normal ascent profile work on the gas available, so going back to the upline, etc is not on the agenda if I need to draw it.
It of course is (mostly) useless in an overhead; for those environments I use doubles.
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