Best dive flag for snorkeling and freediving

[Rred]

Gee, Sam, I didn't think it was my obligation to educate a million boaters. I'm not the one who mandated use of the flag. Or, do you think divers should walk around the docks and launch ramps in saffron robes and ask everyone with a boat "Have you read this book yet?"

Educate them? Uh, yeah, that's why states are requiring boating operator licenses these days. That educates them. In theory.

Sbiriguda-
The USCG *does* issue citations. It is not their job to "make" penalties, just to issue citations for the rules. And since the rules are not federal, the USCG is limited to enforcing state or local laws on that. So you will find the USCG and the various state and municipal police agencies, the same ones who issue tickets or arrest you for boating while intoxicated, also issue citations for encroaching on any protected zone--especially on dive flags. In Florida especially, the Florida Wildlife Commission (FWC) are notorious for writing up any violation they find while on water patrol, and they have full police powers.
In contrast, some years ago my buddy and I were lobstering in a shallow rocky area, and we had a dive flag hoisted on the anchored and unmanned boat we were diving from. (Safe enough, shallow water, sheltered area, western Long Island sound.) We hear a deep rumble of engines and when it stops, we slowly ascend ready to engage boat thieves. After all, who else would be there?
A county water cop! Who should have known that with or without anyone on board it, he STILL was required to keep away from our boat.

 

[Sbiriguda]

Strange anyway... Perhaps it is also due to the different kind of coast. In Italy it's not really like in the Atlantic or Pacific ocean. It is not common to find very long sandy beaches for hundreds of kilometers, except perhaps in Sardinia and some parts of the Adriatic Sea. Liguria and other places (Amalfi coast for example) have rocky shores, there are small caves and small bays with rocky or sometimes a pebbled or sandy shore. The few long sandy beaches are rented by the government to resorts and the beaches are full of umbrellas and crowded. As a rule diving is not allowed in this sort of places. It's probably easier for the coast guard to check. Mostly diving is allowed from boats of authorized diving centers, where there is always a pilot on the boat when divers are down. Or sometimes from the shore, in very few spots, and in places where usually there are no crowded beaches and few boats and jetskis passing by

 

[Rred]

" The few long sandy beaches are rented by the government to.... As a rule diving is not allowed in this sort of places."
Again, it will vary by state, but often the public beaches, state parks, county parks, have a total ban on scuba diving, or even the use of mask and fins (supposedly because they can hurt swimmers) as well as a keep-out range for boats. That can extend 1000 yards from the shore.
Then there are other states where the water access is practically unlimited. Policy varies from state to state, but I don't think we have any coastlines that are known for caves and grottoes.

 

[Sam Miller III]

@Rred

Gee, Sam, I didn't think it was my obligation to educate a million boaters. I'm not the one who mandated use of the flag. Or, do you think divers should walk around the docks and launch ramps in saffron robes and ask everyone with a boat "Have you read this book yet?"

Educate them? Uh, yeah, that's why states are requiring boating operator licenses these days. That educates them. In theory.
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Yep-- Wear anything you consider appropriate I am not familiar with the standards of dress in your community …
The life you save by educating the masses maybe your own - or that of another diver--

It is recognized and appreciated that this type of immense effort is just too much for a late model tube sucking bubble blower who is a transitional visitor to the SCUBA diving world -- who is nothing in the diving world, has contributed nothing to improve the diving world , will do nothing to improve the diving world but complain

I suspect you are not alone ...

FYI
A small history of the red & white diver flag

1957 --61 years ago Ted Nixon suggested a flag for diving

1960 -58 years ago the flag was adopted as the recognized symbol of diving

1962-56 years ago --a diver stuck by a boat an severely injured at Catalina Island

1964-54 years ago - first litigation in court of law establishing the rights of a diver displaying the divers flag
fyi - I was the only expert witness on the litigation for the defense

1966- 52 years ago - (?) I authored description of the flag for Chapmans (USCG)

1965-51 years ago- I was the first guest editor of Skin Diver Magazine -- Sign Post To Safety

1965 to 1988 numerous consults with agencies, authors, etc

1988-30 years ago- consult to litigation of a late model tube sucker claimed ownership of red and white dives flag
18 months of effort-- the red and white divers flag is in public domain- free for all to use and display

1990 -28 years - numerous consults and two present cases I cannot at this time issue a comment
currently 2 magazine articles in progress
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Certainly discerning to be in a sport as Clarke Gable uttered in that classic movie Gone With The Wind
"Frankly my dear I don't give a damn ! "

I do care-- but others apparently like you share Clarks sentiments

Sam Miller,III

@The Chairman
@Akimbo

@rhwestfall








suggest contacting @kevmor

 

[Rred]

Sam, I never said I didn't care, I said it wasn't my job. The same way that it isn't my job to go around handing out citations for BWI or catching undersize lobsters.

My job is to report it to the appropriate powers when I see it. They get paid to enforce it.

Sixty years and your concept of education hasn't quite worked. Hmmmm....Why don't you shut the computer and go out and do your job, handing out pamphlets to boaters who really don't give a damn what kind of flags and rules you want to talk about?

If you want to make personal accusations and judgements, it works both ways.

My way works: Drop a dime on the offenders. Education is vastly overrated, it only works on those who can be educated.

 

[Sam Miller III]

I have lectured numerous times to national organizations and all the local organizations : boat clubs, fishing clubs, diving clubs and local enforcement organizations..

I was instrumental in having dive flag signs at all of our local beaches, marinas and boat launching locations
All that was required was short meeting with the director of marine services

Apparently too much effort for a transitory late model tubes sucking bubble blowers

sdm

 

[The Chairman]

Who should have known that with or without anyone on board it, he STILL was required to keep away from our boat.

This is not true. Boats can operate close to flags IF they are at idle (steerage speed). How else could a dive boat pick up divers? While there is no national standard for the Diver Down flag, all the states that do have laws about them specify this in their verbiage.

I'm a big believer in education. While most divers know about the flag due to aggressive education through the agencies, we don't have that reach among boaters. I would love to see more state laws that mandate such training as part of being allowed to operate a boat that could injure a diver. I'm proud that ScubaBoard is part of the education process, but again, we don't reach enough boaters.

@Rred and @Sam Miller III: Let's please keep this discussion civil. It's OK if you don't agree. There is no need to make characterizations about each other publicly. Readers can make their own conclusions about either of you by the tone of your writings.

 

[Sbiriguda]

@Sam Miller,III
I can see that "Scuba legend" in your case is not just an expression...

 

[Sbiriguda]

This is not true. Boats can operate close to flags IF they are at idle (steerage speed).

Not sure about it but I think that here instead boats are not allowed to operate close to the dive down flag, not even if they are idle
Will ask around

 

[Ana]

First off: Love the reference to the saffron robes. Funny memories.

To the point of the thread... for snorkel and freediving I like the hard plastic bullet shape floats with loud orange thick line, they provide the least drag of them all. We have a flag on the vessel following the person in the water so the "legal" portion of having a flag is covered.
For actual scuba we drag the typical flag/float with weighted axis assembly.

Side note: I've noticed in my corner of SE Florida (off Hillsboro inlet) there's a lot more civility around dive flags, granted the snow birds are now arriving and I may say different in a couple of months, but really I don't recall any event this year having to use our vessel to protect our flag.
Just 3 or 4 years ago it would be almost every month.