Best CCR in 2025-2030 Rebreather Markets

[Mobulai]

In car racing world, this is like asking which big parent companies will offer high-class racing units this year? The answer will be something like Mercedes and Ferrari.

This might be where perceptions can be changed
Unlike the auto/racing world, rebreathers aren’t racing machines

Most of “frog leaps” in the rebreather world come from very small companies and the research world; like solid state oxygen sensors made by couple of phd students (back then) in Germany, making that a company, and becoming a supplier to a big name like Poseidon

The same happened with Oxygen scientific, that consult on work and supply SS o2 cells to Halcyon

 

[Mas.]

Re: Deager, they withdrew completely from the “recreational” diving scene

Thanks for your analysis about Deager and Head. What about other big companies? Do you think Scubapro will aquire Poseidon or AP and offer their CCR? Or will buy the CCR technology from Deager and market it for technical divers as what happened with rEvo?

 

[Mobulai]

Thanks for your analysis about Deager and Head. What about other big companies? Do you think Scubapro will aquire Poseidon and offer their CCR or they will aquire AP?

I don’t think they will try either

Poseidon is one of the biggest names in regulators, just like Scubapro… no chance

AP I believe is gonna stay independent, they are quite famous within the scientific diving community

Can’t speak for Scubapro, but I suspect they aren’t pursuing any rebreather biz

 

[mr_v]

@Mas. - you've contributed to a different thread and received almost the same answers, but for some reasons you're not comfortable with the truth: Companies matching your criteria do not exist in non-professional rebreather market, where "non-professional" is synonymous with recreational and technical rebreather divers commonly certified by IANTD, TDI, SSI, and similar agencies.

A few quotes from your other post to put the question in context:

i am searching for more options to help a family student who want to start instructor career in CCR training and doesn't want to consider any units rely on the mood and life conditions of single engineer or entrepreneur.

Prism 2 and rEvo III are the only two CE models likely to be around for longer time. All others are owned by smaller businesses who rely on single individuals.

None of these quotes received positive responses.

Your comparison between rebreather diving and F1 is also on the wrong track. F1 participants generate substantial revenue from automotive business. See it for yourself by pulling these companies' financial statements and looking at figures such as operating margins, EBITDA, and so on. In contrast, none of the diving conglomerates you've mentioned generate substantial business through their rebreather divisions, and that is a plus. Smaller companies are easier to work with because they're more in tune with diver needs, e.g., I just completed a joint project with rEvo, but would Mercedes listen to my automotive needs?

Your friend who is looking into rebreather instruction should seek advice from other financially successful instructors, not from a top-down market analysis approach that is flawed for this case. Please don't take my post as a bitter answer, because the responses stem from experience in business development, product marketing, new ventures, finance, merges/acquisitions, and hours spent on modeling / valuation (which was a total waste of time, I'd rather dive).

Also, if you want to get better answers, please ask better questions.

 

[sea_ledford]

Thanks for your analysis about Deager and Head. What about other big companies? Do you think Scubapro will aquire Poseidon and offer their CCR or they will aquire AP?

Unlikely. Scubapro doesn't even sell technical regs by their own standards. Their regs "need" scubapro hoses. They don't sell 5' or 7' hoses, unless that has changed in the last few years. And I am aware that you can very easily swap to a non-scubapro long hose and they work great. But according to Scubapro, full service requires the use of scubapro branded hoses. Or they did last time I took a course. Widely unenforced, but still...

But I'll chime in with everyone else that you are asking the wrong question. Or your question has been answered to the best of anyone's ability that is not on the BOD of one of the major companies that may decide to buy a boutique company at some undetermined time in the future. Or maybe you are asking the right question for your needs, but to the wrong people.

AP and Poseidon are probably the biggest companies that have CCR sales as any significant part of their bottom line. Hollis Rebreathers is not part of Huish I don't think.

 

[Mobulai]

Quick divert

They don't sell 5' or 7' hoses, unless that has changed in the last few years

if you buy a “dual reg kit” for BM doubles or SM you’ll get SP branded 7’ hose; but yeah; SP is very rec diver oriented

 

[Sascha314]

I am not sure if you are not fooling yourself by fixate to bigger companies.

First of all, the total number of employes might be totally different to numbers working on that specific project.
Second, that does not gurantee safety at all. Better look at the individual safety measures and concepts. And furthermore about the history and there are lots of research about diving safety with different type of rebreathers.

That leads to a totally different and more important number: how many units are sold and how many dives are being done with them. That makes a bigger impact.

Next: there is no guarantee people will like a rebreather that is not on the market yet and it will be a success, because its a big company.
Especially there is no one on the market right now, so there is no data on all of this important facts.
You cut out important data in your "analysis", so you may fool yourself.

 

[Mas.]

@Mas. - you've contributed to a different thread and received almost the same answers,

True. I mentioned that I am now aware of Deager and Head Sports names only because of that interaction with other great ScubaBoard fourm members who wanted to share information with me. What is wrong with that?

@Mas. - None of these quotes received positive responses.

Is there a positive and negative response to gathering information from other members?

@Mas. - you've
Your comparison between rebreather diving and F1 is also on the wrong track.
Also, if you want to get better answers, please ask better questions.

It is not a comparison for the product itself. There is nothing wrong with going back to simple analogy to express the idea of risk stakes and Safety in big parent corporation.

@Mas. - you've
Also, if you want to get better answers, please ask better questions.

I am gathering information by asking straight forward questions.

Do you know any big companies planning to offer CCR this year? If not, I can compe back next year and keep asking the same question every year.
What exactly is wrong with my question?

 

[Mobulai]

Do you know any big companies planning to offer CCR this year?

The only way to answer this question is changing it to “big in the rebreather niche”; then the answer would be yes, here’s what companies said the plan on launching this year:
KISS (xdeep): kiss sidewinder 2
M3 (Triton): Neptune aCCR, an updated triton
AP have new updates to their units
Revo have new updates to their units
Treb (smaller company): introduced a DiveCAN version this year

no data from companies with 1k+ employees

 

[Mas.]

maybe you are asking the right question for your needs, but to the wrong people.

Thanks. I don't mind to ask. I already learned a lot from everyone.