Major Industry Change re: Online Scuba Sales....

[ReefHound]

Ok, ok! No mas!

You've convinced me. I don't know what I'm talking about.

I never said that. I just don't know why you're telling the LDS they'll never be successful doing what has made the eLDS wildly successful when what the LDS is currently doing is failing spectacularly. Instead of telling us what the LDS shouldn't try to do, tell us what it should do. Better yet, open an LDS and show us.

To bring it squarely back on topic, maybe adopting a competitive online segment will not save the LDS in the long run. But they can't continue business as usual. Maybe nothing can save them. Sometimes markets evaporate.

 

[RJP]

I just don't know why you're telling the LDS they'll never be successful doing what has made the eLDS wildly successful when what the LDS is currently doing is failing spectacularly. Instead of telling us what the LDS shouldn't try to do, tell us what it should do. Better yet, open an LDS and show us.

To bring it squarely back on topic, maybe adopting a competitive online segment will not save the LDS in the long run. But they can't continue business as usual. Maybe nothing can save them. Sometimes markets evaporate.

You're missing the point. I'm not telling anyone specifically what they should or shouldn't do. (That part I don't do for free!)

My point is that there are idiot LDSs and idiot eTailers. There's nothing innately bad about about one versus the other, nor is there anything innately good about them either.

Perhaps the greatest value I bring to my clients is that in the end "I don't care" about how you do what you do. My job as a marketer is to build demand for whatever it is that you have to offer. Do it online, do it bricks and mortar, I don't care. A good marketing expert can help you figure it out.

More often than not I will help them figure out that...

- they are NOT offering what the customer wants, or
- that they can offer something PERCEIVED to be different
- or that they can charge more for essentially the same thing

And if the client wants to go even further you can probably get the customer to drive a hundred miles, pay for parking, crawl across broken glass, wait for an hour, and then thank you for the priveledge and beg you to let them come back.

"Demand beyond explanation, loyalty beyond reason."

 

[ReefHound]

You're missing the point. I'm not telling anyone specifically what they should or shouldn't do. (That part I don't do for free!)

Well if you're not going to put out and there's no Happy Ending... NEXT!!!!

And if the client wants to go even further you can probably get the customer to drive a hundred miles, pay for parking, crawl across broken glass, wait for an hour, and then thank you for the priveledge and beg you to let them come back.

"Demand beyond reason, loyalty beyond explanation."

Umm, sounds like you've already been advising them because that's exactly the attitude many LDS seem to have, and it's precisely why they are doomed and dying.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

Keep your eyes on Citgo - there are loads of Americans choosing 'to make a difference'.

The 7-11 chain is dropping Citgo as a branded presence nationwide. Citgo says this was already in the works before Chavez's comments about room in PDVSA. I have no doubt that's true - savvy businesspeople at 7-11 trying to get or stay ahead of the curve.

Retailers in Oklahoma switching brand affiliations and covering up the Citgo logo on their signs.

Statements by Citgo folks to the press that all this is doing is hurting the livelihood of independant businesspeople. Maybe in some part true, but also the effects of freedom to vote with our wallets. And, station owners can certainly change brand affilliations.

Y'all reckon any part of this business model and results have parallels elsewhere?

Citgo had the largest market share in the USA for retail gasoline sold at the pump ten or so years ago.

 

[RJP]

Rolex is a very special brand name. It is the Ferrari of watches.

Ok, let's be fair to Ferrari. Rolex is not the Ferrari of watches. Rolex is perhaps the Cadillac of watches. If you want to stretch a bit Rolex is the Mercedes of watches.

Seriously. In the watch market, Rolex is at the very top of the low-end.

Ferrari of watches? Blancpain, IWC, Jaeger le Coultre, Audemars Piguet, Lange, Patek, Breguet, Vacheron, Ulysse Nardin, Roger Dubuis, FP Journe. Plenty to choose from that are head and shoulders above Rolex.

 

[ReefHound]

Ok, let's be fair to Ferrari. Rolex is not the Ferrari of watches. Rolex is perhaps the Cadillac of watches. If you want to stretch a bit Rolex is the Mercedes of watches.

Yeah, I did some Rolex research after our discussion and was pretty surprised to see that the jewelry watches is really a small part of their business, they are still the world leader for sports watches. They have always been innovative and visionary, the first to bring a watch to the wrist.

And unlike most of those high end names, Rolex is easy to pronounce.

 

[RJP]

They have always been innovative and visionary

Well, that's not exactly true.



A Rolex Explorer made today, is pretty much unchanged from the first Explorer made in 1958. Same with the Submariner, the GMT, the Seadweller, the Datejust, the President, etc, etc, etc.

Among Rolex fans, the most minor change is heralded as a quantum leap, because they never change ANYTHING.

True, they were part of the innovation of the wristwatch seventy-five years ago. But they haven't done much since.

Yet, even so they are able to charge $5,000 for what Timex charges $50. THAT'S what marketing does for you.

 

[ams511]

This is an interesting thread. Perhaps a better comparison would be in the book market where you have Amazon and the B&M stores. Now this is not ideal either because many of the B&M stores are national chains themselves, such as Borders and Barnes & Noble. The diving industry does not not have these national chains, which may be benefical to the LDS. However the B&M stores have changed their business model over time offering additional service, such as a coffee shop and book clubs. Stores that did not adapt or did so late are out of business.

In my opinion for a LDS to survive in the internet age they need to provide some sort of perceived value to the consumer. Why should a consumer be expected to pay more for an identical item at a LDS than at an eLDS? Especially. if there is no additional value. For example, if a customer wants a BP & Wing setup he could probably save $100 or more buying online. For an LDS to compete they could offer free assembly, and maybe some pool time to try out the setup and help the diver get the trim and weighting correct. To me this adds value and would support paying the higher price.

The other thing they can do is actually get people diving by: sponsoring clinics and events, send out newletters and flyers, sponsoring buddy lists, giving special deals to clubs, etc. There are many things a dive shop can do to get people into their store and buy equipment, without having to have the lowest price.

Last week I dropped off some regs to be serviced at an LDS. They only wrote my first name on the ticket, they have taken my full name and put me on a mailing list so next year they could send me a reminder card to get the regs serviced and maybe even a coupon to have the service done. That way they will not lose me as a customer to other dive shops (I live in Miami so you can imagine there are quite a few to chose from).

 

[WesTexDiver]

This post is like an arguement between Republicans and Democrats.

 

[RJP]

For example, if a customer wants a BP & Wing setup he could probably save $100 or more buying online. For an LDS to compete they could offer free assembly, and maybe some pool time to try out the setup and help the diver get the trim and weighting correct. To me this adds value and would support paying the higher price.

Yup. When I got my BP/W set-up from my LDS they spent LITERALLY three hours with me one evening trying on TransPacs and TransPlates and Backplates and Halcyon and DR and OMS and then configuring and tweaking my harness rigging, etc. Measuring me, trying it on, sizing, resizing, swapping out different size D-rings, moving buckles around, etc.

Then when we had it perfect they "made" me come back and try it in the pool for a few hours; getting weight and bouyancy right, re-adjusting sizing to accomodate dry suit and different undergarments, practicing slinging/deploying/stowing stage bottle, etc, etc.

During the pool session we determined that the weight pockets I bought weren't needed (in fact I didn't need any weight) so I returned them. We determined that I really DID want the STA that I originally didn't buy, so we set that up, and started all over again and then got back in the pool. I didn't leave until I had it dialed in perfectly. Well worth paying the $100-$150 more that I did for all the gear I got.

After about 10 dives in that setup, I opted to swap out the "deluxe" harness for a straight-up hogarthian rigging. So I went to the LDS and bought 15ft of webbing. The owner of the shop spent about another hour or so breaking down the delux harness and setting up the hog rig, sizing, moving buckles and rings etc. So they spent the same amount of time servicing a $30 sale as they did on a $800 sale.

When I ordered a DUI drysuit, they let me borrow a brand new demo suit for three weeks while I waited for the new one to come in. When it did come in, I decided to get the DUI insulated booties for the suit. They recommeded against, saying that the $19 fleece booties they sell were better. I wasn't so sure, so they gave me a pair of each to take diving that weekend. After testing I bought the $19 fleece ones.

After taking my rescue class with them they told me that once you pass rescue with them you can take it again every year with them for free; they run a "rescue weekend" each spring for people with rescue cert. Or you can simply take part in another class that is ongoing any weekend during the year.

Like I told the guys at the shop recently "You guys make it too damn easy to be a customer!"