Best BP/W

[Eric Sedletzky]

Before anyone can answer your question accurately we need to know what type of diving you're going to be doing?
Standard recreational diving/tech diving/cold water/warm water/wet/dry/single tank/double tank/entanglement hazards-sharp objects/soft bottom with no puncture hazards.
There are too many variables now in BP/W and too many choices. I never thought BP/W would get to this point but as many different people making them have gotten into the scene so have many different types of plates and wings with slight to big differences.
Some plates have steep bends which are better for doubles but will work for singles. Some plates are flatter which work better for singles but will work for doubles but not as well for dubs as a steep plate.
Some have plastic slot inserts which protect the webbing but then don't allow the webbing to slide. Some people like the webbing to slide but then don't want to have an added gizmo to allow that. Some plates are made out of 304 and some 316. 304 is fine if you rinse your gear after each dive day and put it away in a dry environment, but if the plate is going to be bungeed to a rack on a dive boat and live in the elements 24/7 then 316 is better.
Some slots are rounded over nice and some are not. Some plates have a nicer finish on the edges and in the polish. A nice polish is better because it doesn't allow grit to hang on to anything, plus it's easier on drysuit and wetsuit fabrics. Not all plates are created equal. Generally the more expensive ones are finished nicer which takes more time on labor processing. Time = $, so you get what you pay for (most of the time). Sometimes there is mediocre gear that's overpriced because someone want's to get in on the action and grab a quick buck, or because they have a name and feel they must uphold their reputation for being pricey.
Then there are some choices completely different from the standard family of what is considered the "conventional doubles plate".
It's an ever evolving thing.

Wings are a whole other area of discussion. There are narrow ones/wide ones/ones with cut proof outer shell/thin bladder/thick bladder/some allow you to access the bladder via a 360 loop zipper/and some do not/some have slots and some don't/not all slots are in the same place on different wings/not all 11" holes are in the same place relative to the top and bottom of the wing. Then there are STA's (single tank adapters) some are thick/some are thin/some are tall/some are flatter/some allow for the tank to drop down and some do not/some work better with some wings to line up the tank STA and wing optimally. There are different shapes of wings with more lift in front and some have more lift in back. Some have retraction bands but most do not.
Then there is a the price factor. If price is a factor then there are the best bang for buck ones, but that doesn't mean they are the best feature ones.

So you see, this is like discussing which vehicle is best. Where do you go? how do you drive?
Do you like sports cars and like to go fast/do you need 4 wheel drive/do you go to the snow/do you haul heavy loads/do you work in it/play in it/do you haul around a lot of kids/do you need to tow stuff/ do you need to save gas or do you care about mileage.

We need to know more.

 

[tbone1004]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cl...94922-halcyon-infinity-bc-w-ss-backplate.html

just buy that and be done with it, you'll have quite possibly the best single tank rig on the market, that also happens to be the most expensive...

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cl...94922-halcyon-infinity-bc-w-ss-backplate.html

just buy that and be done with it, you'll have quite possibly the best single tank rig on the market, that also happens to be the most expensive...

Just curious and not trying to be a troll, but what makes the above BP/W setup the best in your opinion?

 

[Keith.M]

I was surprised to see 4 D rings on the shoulder straps. What's up with that?

 

[tbone1004]

the fit and finish of the plate itself is top notch, the webbing they use is also pretty damned good. The cinch system is very nice for backplate users and takes away a lot of the problems with the rigs that aren't easily adjusted. The wings are top quality wings. Made in the USA not China, in the OP's home state if that means anything to him, does to many. The Infinity itself is the whatever part, but the brand is what matters.

Most importantly their customer service is exceptional. Every brand has a knock against it.

Deep Sea Supply, support/service, have to ship to California, lack of dealer network. Tobin is great, but he's a long way away
Oxycheq is the same, they only get mentioned because the quality is amazing
Halcyon, price, they are priced way higher than everything else and while they should be a premium brand, not that much of a premium. If new prices on them were $600-$700 instead of $800-$900, they would get my recommendation more, but they are not a good value.
DiveRite, overall fit and finish isn't quite as good as the others, maybe 10% less, but the support network is phenomenal and is still made in the USA.

None of the other brands really come in. Won't ever understand why people buy Hollis plates and wings, they're a horrible value because you get nothing for the extra cost. Dive Rite is the same price, with better support, and made in USA instead of Taiwan. UTD is that much worse since they're in the same price as Halcyon.

For me there are 3 options.

The best, price non issue. Halcyon, made in USA, premium quality, premium price

The best bang for buck, DRiS Trianta, or HOG. Made overseas, best price, very high quality, great warranty and support.

Balance, Dive Rite or Deep Sea Supply. Priced about 30% more than the Trianta, but are made in USA and have a wider dealer support network, but about 40% less than Halcyon. Pick your poison on this, but usually it's Dive Rite if you're using the same plate to go between doubles and singles more often since they use an STA that Lamar was nice enough not to patent, and DSS if you have a dedicated rig or you want the ability to bolt on weight plates *VERY nice feature if you're doing cold water diving*.

Most of the other systems are really just in there because someones buddy, family member, instructor, or LDS convinced them to buy it. There is no logical reason to buy any Hollis, Scubapro, or UTD plates or wings based on the above information. The premium prices that you are paying are going to fund the marketing budgets, not go back to fuel R&D and higher quality products. There is a bit of that with Dive Rite, but it is still a small family owned company that strives to put out high quality domestic products. Their regulators are from ODS, so you may as well save a few bucks and buy HOG, but the vast majority of their products come out of New York or Florida

Edit: Keith, their attempt to appeal a bit more to the recreational market, same with the shoulder pads, QR weight pocket, backpad etc. It's the same wing/STA/plate/harness as the eclipse, just has their quick cinch and deluxe padding options on it, and a few other accessories. The padding kit really makes the one piece harness much more tolerable if you're diving without exposure protection....

Again, disclaimer, I don't actually own any Halcyon products, but have dove them on and off for many years, and learned how to dive in an Eclipse, it is a truly high quality product, and if the price was more reasonable I would own their gear, but I can't justify the premium, but I also can't justify buying a Range Rover when I can spend half the money and buy a loaded Grand Cherokee that is almost as nice.... Some can.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

There is a price for trying to keep all points of manufacture domestic.
So, if the bigger picture of supporting the company who makes stuff in the USA important to people and they are willing to pay the extra to pay the workers here a living wage and keep finaces flowing in a company for continued R&D, which everyone knows R&D in basically free labor until the new product is realized and gets payed for in the future.
Some companies trail blaze and suffer the initial costs of R&D and domestic labor and marketing to establish a new idea before they ever see any money from sales. Then inevitably someone else comes along and tree tops the idea and doesn't have to put in nearly as much time money or effort because the first guy already did that for them. Those types copiers will always be second rate though at least in theory because they always have to copy something and have no vision of their own. They will always have to wait to see what is new so they have something to copy. Sure there may be some slight tweaks and modifications but the general idea will always be the same.

So, in this respect it boils down to what is important to the buyer.
Some just want it cheap and don't care the origins or the big picture of what it means to support a domestic operation.
Others see the importance and the bigger picture of supporting the US and it's workers IN ADDITION to the actual face value of the product.
They are able to factor in and justify the added costs.

BP/W manufacturing is still small enough that tooling up in China to produce thousands of units is still not quite worth it.
BP/W sales are still only a few percentage points of all the rest of BC sales world wide.

 

[tbone1004]

if you are going on copying, then Dive Rite wins that round for the BP/W system as we know it as well as the STA which we can actually thank Lamars wife for that one. They weren't the true first, but they were the first to bring it to market as we see it now. Flanagan and Main were the inventors, but Dive Rite optimized it, set the 11" bolt standard, invented the STA, and a whole lot of other stuff

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I always wondered who invented or made the very first modern style plate (doubles plate) as we know it today.
The story goes that the very first one was cut out of an old stop sign and was aluminum.
I know the STA came later when someone had the bright idea that the plate would work for singles too.
We may know who officially made the first commercially available plate wing and STA, but who knows how many one-off versions of all sorts of adapting devices were made in peoples' garages prior, including crude plates and BC wing devices made out of spare parts from old BC's?
I'm sure people have been tinkering for years all the way back to the 50's and 60's.

And why 11" center holes? Not 10" not 12" but 11".
Seems like strange number.

 

[tbone1004]

Call Lamar and ask, he properly invented the STA and came up with 11". I'm sure it had something to do with optimizing for some of the shorter tanks.

Some discrepancy as to whether it was Bill Main or Greg Flanagan for the first plate as we know it, but the plastic backplates go way way back.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Call Lamar and ask, he properly invented the STA and came up with 11". I'm sure it had something to do with optimizing for some of the shorter tanks.

Some discrepancy as to whether it was Bill Main or Greg Flanagan for the first plate as we know it, but the plastic backplates go way way back.

I even heard of people making homemade plates out of plywood back in the day, and another guy making a skeleton plate out of shaped re-bar.