Best bang for the buck?

[tbone1004]

I have no affiliation with CA, don't get any kickbacks etc from them, I just believe in their shop. This is no secret since it's in my signature, and the same holds true for UWLD and DSS. They offer fantastic customer service, the best prices in the industry, and packages that work. Also note that I told them to talk to CCDS who is local to them with similar accolades. They do not have a great online presence yet so it is difficult to link to their website. DGX is the only other dive shop that is doing similar things in terms of custom packages for regulators that I'm aware of, and I prefer Cave Adventurers so I choose to link to them when I can. I also mentioned the DGX singles package, however for an extra $100 you get an extra first stage and SPG which I believe offers a better value due to reasons that I mentioned before. With CA you only save $10 with their doubles kit and you lose out on the extra SPG, so yes the sidemount package is the best bang for the buck, and if you call, they will give you whatever hose lengths you want.

If your shop had anything remotely similar I would consider doing the same, but you don't, so it is impossible to recommend your shop as being the best bang for the buck when you are competing against these shops that are truly the best bang for the buck

 

[halocline]

Wow, I'm on the same side of an argument as beaver divers......we must be in an alternate universe!!

Tbone, you probably should take those shops off your signature unless you want people to think you're working with them.

 

[tbone1004]

why does it matter whether they're in my signature line or not? Why would it matter if I was working for them? It doesn't change anything. I value a products "bang for the buck" over any other parameter

UWLD-offers the only properly engineered primary diving lights on the market. They are the best lights on the market, period, and are priced fairly. They aren't the cheapest, aren't the most expensive, but offer the best value in terms of price, quality, and performance.

DSS-best value for plate and wing on the market. They are priced below most manufacturers, offer higher quality, and unique features that no one else does. The owner, while blunt, gives of his time to talk to any diver about how to make the best gear selection for them. I don't know of any other manufacturer of rigs that does that. I would have made the same comment for UWLD, but Light Monkey offers similar customer service.

Cave Adventurers is one of the only online dive shops that carries a wide variety of dive gear, that has the customer service to back up what they are doing and why, and is willing to work with you to make sure you get exactly what you need. Dive Right in Scuba, Dan's Dive Shop, and Northeast Scuba Supply are also on the list, and you will see me quite often mention those shops if a diver is in that area. Where DRiS and DDS have stayed very diverse, CA is focused on sidemount diving and cave diving which is advantageous for some. In the instance mentioned above, Dive Rite was mentioned and CA will be able to make a better deal for the OP than either of the other shops. Since they are in Alachua, Cave Country Dive Shop is the best option for them, but they don't have an online dive shop. Note that I did mention in multiple posts to contact the Bernot's as they will be able to make a similar package deal for them and are local to them. Yeah, CA is in my signature, it's there for a reason, and unless Edd asks me to, I won't take it off because I am choosing to support his business. In this case CCDS makes the most sense as long as they are willing to match the pricing from CA which I'd be hard pressed to hear that they wouldn't.

 

[halocline]

I just don't get this. A DIN/Yoke adapter is super easy to use and is not that big of a deal to carry in your travel bag. In the NCFL area (where the OP lives), and South FL/West Palm.. DIN tanks are pretty common.

It's one thing if you own a DIN reg/tank and need to use an adapter occasionally for yoke tanks. They do work, but they put the regulator at least an inch closer to the back of your head so you bang it whenever you look up, and they negate any of the benefits of the DIN connection, and they can be a problem if the tank falls, or someone grabs it by the reg to pull the scuba unit out of the water, and these things happen on resort boats all the time. Still, the adapters will work in a pinch.

It's another thing to specifically buy a DIN reg for use with an adapter on yoke tanks. That makes zero sense. The convertible valves are becoming more popular in the U.S., but there are plenty of other dive destinations in this part of the world, like Cozumel, Bonaire, Roatan, and many other spots in the caribbean. These places overwhelmingly offer yoke tanks.

And those convertible valves are not without their problems in rental environments. Those plugs get stuck in rental tanks frequently. The threads are unprotected and get salt penetration, then sit for days. If you own your own convertible valves, you can take care of them. I have several, but I never store the tanks with the plugs in.

There's a reason yoke tanks are so popular with caribbean rentals, where the tanks get tossed around in a boat or truck, never rinsed, used day after day by less-than-perfect divers and fillers, etc. The lack of exposed threads makes them pretty tough.

For personal tank use and of course technical diving, DIN makes sense. My doubles regs are all DIN, its not like I have anything against DIN. But it doesn't make sense for the particular situation in this thread.

 

[nh16]

You might have been diving DIN 'convertible' tanks. A convertible DIN/K tank valve has a removable plug that allows a tank to be used with either type of reg. This year, I have rented tanks from a Local (High Springs) shop and two different dive charters in S.Fla. In all three cases, their tanks were DIN/K convertible valves. With one dive charter (in W.Palm), all there tanks were ready for DIN, and he keeps the convertible plugs on the boat for people who have yoke regs.

I see this as a non issue. But the best type of reg you can (DIN), and a yoke adapter for the times where you might be able to rent a DIN tank.
Will you be buying tanks at some point?

Tbh, I haven't paid that much attention to the valves (we rent, we assemble, we make sure nothing's leaking, we get in the water) but from my memory, when we've assembled our rental gear on trips, they have all been the type where you screw in the regulator from behind the valve with the conical looking screw (keys, cozumel, okinawa, around Florida). Again, this seems to be a simple issue of a converter... so I'm not that worried. Just looking for the Toyota Camry of regs Depending on how often we end up diving from our boat, we might get tanks as well. Right now, it doesn't seem worth the extra storage space that it will take up. We have too many hobbies and our spare room is the fishing, kayaking, diving, random crap room...

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[halocline]

why does it matter whether they're in my signature line or not? Why would it matter if I was working for them? It doesn't change anything.

(....and then a long missive extolling the virtues of the particular products in your signature....)

I've been very critical of beaverdivers for using scubaboard as a sales floor, often to the extent that his commentary about diving in general is suspect because he's so often trying to sell someone something. I like scubaboard because it is supposed to be a free and open discussion without the influence (or as much influence) of folks trying to sell gear. The dive training industry is seriously polluted by gear sales IMO.

You usually have a lot to offer on this board and you have lots of good ideas about diving that aren't colored by motivation to sell something. But when you start shilling for a particular product or business, that to me degrades the credibility of your advice. I'm not saying you're being deceptive at all, it's a matter of appearance. Few of us on this board actually know one another, and when people read posts, all they have to go on is the content of the posts themselves. It would be perfectly reasonable to look at your signature and conclude that you have some relationship with these shops that would influence your recommendations. I personally don't think that you do, but I'm a regular and so I've been reading your posts all along. Someone with less familiarity (which is most readers) would not have that benefit. That's why it matters what's in your signature.

 

[nh16]

There's a reason yoke tanks are so popular with caribbean rentals, where the tanks get tossed around in a boat or truck, never rinsed, used day after day by less-than-perfect divers and fillers, etc. The lack of exposed threads makes them pretty tough.
For personal tank use and of course technical diving, DIN makes sense. My doubles regs are all DIN, its not like I have anything against DIN. But it doesn't make sense for the particular situation in this thread.

I think that's a key point here. We're not planning on doing anything technical. I want something that I can use pretty much anywhere. We are also less than perfect divers haha, so we need something basic we can grow with... maybe there will come a time when we want to get more advanced but right now, all we need is a safe, reliable, basic set up.

 

[tbone1004]

then I would go to CCDS and try to dive as much as you can. I believe Jon can get the DR regs in yoke if you ask nicely.

@halocline that's why I try to be diverse in the shops that I recommend. That said, I can't in good conscience recommend any primary lights other than UWLD, because there simply is no option on the market worth serious consideration from a price/performance/quality standpoint. Same with DSS, I can't recommend another backplate/wing manufacturer because no one can do what Tobin does. With those two, they sell direct to consumer, so you pretty much have to link directly to them.
Dive Rite represents the best value for new regulators now that I am aware of until the D6 regulators get listed. Where you buy them is a matter of personal preference, however Dive Gear Express and Cave Adventurers are the only places online that list them as specific packages which helps to break MAP rules. Other shops may or may not match that pricing. I prefer CA to DGX since I'm a cave diver and it is a "local" shop when I'm in that area. I recommended another well known shop that is local to the OP and will help them out. Not sure how that is biased since I'm not steering them away from somewhere else. I try to be transparent any time it comes up, and the links are in my profile for easy reference.

For anyone who is saying I'm clearly pushing for Cave Adventurers, please see post #2 on this page, which has not been edited, where there is no mention of his shop. Simply says go talk to Jon and Kristi and CCDS, and you will likely end up with Dive Rite XT regs. In the same paragraph as the link to the CA reg package I mention going to see CCDS and asking as they will likely match the pricing

 

[CptTightPants21]

Few quick observations.

1. Side mount package comes with small HP hoses so would need to contact shop to get them replaces--could add small additional cost.
2. DiveRite XTs do have a yoke version first stage (so again contact shop and swap them out). I agree that with your mostly traveling/have fun scuba, getting Yoke is preferred.

Tbone isn't wrong about having the extra first stage, but question becomes do you really want to spend that extra $100 (x2 for the wife) right now-that's a personal choice of cost vs benefit.

I second the recommendation to talk with Kristi and Jon and Cave Country Dive Shop and see what kind of package they can put together for you..be it DiveRite, Atomic, Apeks,etc.

Tbone has the shops and gear that he prefers, as do we all. At least when you are getting it from him it s from a person who has tried a lot and has over 500+ dives.

My personal preference being in the Northeast is for apeks regs (although I have been trying to find a Dive Rite set to try). Just for comparison/reference a Single Tank Apeks package using good prices would be

XTX 50/DST- $425
XTX 50 octo-$200
HP hose with SPG-$80
Low Pressure hose-$25
Misc whatever/extra LP hose-$20

Total $750

 

[victorzamora]

It's another thing to specifically buy a DIN reg for use with an adapter on yoke tanks. That makes zero sense. The convertible valves are becoming more popular in the U.S., but there are plenty of other dive destinations in this part of the world, like Cozumel, Bonaire, Roatan, and many other spots in the caribbean. These places overwhelmingly offer yoke tanks.

Yoke or convertible-yoke is what most of the valves are. However, in at least Bonaire, Roatan, and Cancun, you can simply request DIN valves and overwhelmingly get DIN. I only dive Yoke if I absolutely have to and am not happy doing so.

nh16, this is what tbone and I are talking about when we talk about "convertible valves." With the "donut" looking adapter in, it works as a yoke valve. If you unscrew it, it works as a 200bar DIN valve....that means any first-stage will work on it. I highly recommend swinging by CCDS to visit Jon and Kristi Bernot.