Best agency for learning Tech diving - criteria given - honest :)
- Thread starter epoque
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So you mean to tell me you just flew across the world and dove Truk and your weren't thrilled. Ha ha ha ha ha scuba diving is thrilling doesn't matter the depth blue heron bridge is thrilling going into your first cave thrilling when you see your first huge wreck mind blowing.
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CAPTAIN SINBAD
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If agencies do not matter, why do they exist? Why not have each instructor print their own C-card?
I think you can actually do that with TDI. Print your own cards that is. You have to buy the machine and software from them.
But it's not that agencies don't matter. They are the matrix upon which the instructors coalesce. However, it's important to note that agencies don't teach or certify divers: instructors do. Finding the best instructor for you is far more important than what agency they are allied with.
Will sound semantics - though you actually make the point with your examples - but I went to Truk to see specific wrecks... not to dive deep. I didn't need to travel 37 hours to dive deep.
I never once thought "It would be thrilling to dive to 200ft... where should I go?"
Which is the point. Tech diving is (or should be) "objective focused" rather than depth focused. If there's something specific you want to see at 200ft - and you'd be thrilled to see whatever that is - cool. But don't dive to 200ft "for the thrill" of diving to 200ft.
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+1 on Gideon, the guy is a master instructor.
HungoverDiver
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Thank you. So many comments are that "choose instructor, not agency" line with almost no follow through or comment on how one is supposed to pick a good instructor.*
I feel like it's almost a COA line from the agency or other instructors from said agency. "Well I told you to pick based on my instructor, so it's not my fault you failed/had a bad experience intro to tech at TDI/GUE/UTD/etc..."
I've even had that same style comment on some of my poor experiences with some rec course. I had a great OW instructor. He's teaching outside of OW was poor, so my experiences with speciality courses is poor. Given how good he was an OW instructor, I think my experience in the speciality course reflects the agency's standards, but yet it's my fault for picking a poor instructor.
Some cars break down a lot and are difficult to maintain. That doesn't necessarily mean I chose a bad mechanic.
*there are a number of threads that do go into detail on this matter, and thank you to those who have taken the time to explain this.
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I don't recall the threads, but off the top of my mind I recall that Steve Lewis (Doppler on SB) in his book The Six Skills gives a short checklist of things one should ask when "interviewing" a potential instructor. So my impression is that to "pick a good instructor" one might start with a list of recommended instructors--ask here on SB for recommendations--and then go through a process of interviewing them.
Thank you to everyone who has posted tips in agencies and instructors. In between packing my kit for tomorrow's holiday (I am thrilled to be leaving, but other passengers need not worry!!), I have been checking out lots on Tech diving courses online, and the various acronyms posted have helped me build the edges of the jigsaw so I know what to ask to get started. Very grateful for your input - thanks.
As to the now main topic of this thread, which has been hijacked pretty much, I would say that my words in post#1 have been taken out of context, mainly by RJP whose rather bizarre posts on this thread leave me dumbstruck. RJP in post#35 continues to imply the same nonsense about me despite my clarification on post#9. Seems he has an agenda - and by reading the way, as much as what he writes, it is obvious to me what kind of Instructor he is. He says he wouldn't "take me on" in post#6, but aside from never being asked, he can be assured I wouldn't dream of giving him my business. He scares me. Rather hang out with AJ, NetDoc, TSandM, HungoverDiver, Seya, tomfcrist and Kensuf.
Funny how the Instructors who have clocked up 5000+ dives are relaxed and honest. Inclusive and welcoming. Probably they remember they were excited when they first learned Tech, and yet know themseves to be proficient, diligent and safety concious. I guess being truly masters of their game, they have nothing to prove either. Perhaps also they recognise that someone wanting to learn technical diving that didnt - among many other things - find the concept of diving beyond normal limits exhilarating/exciting/thrilling would be a weird person and probably unsafe. I humbly submit on behalf of students, that what we tech-newbies want from an instructor is confident leadership, not ego. Camaraderie not elitism. Since all the advise from everyone is to find an instructor I feel comfortable teaching me, I think RJP need not change his plans from impressing the college girls.
Just from a logic perspective, even if I was stating that my 'MAIN reason for tech diving was for the thrill', which i never said, then RJP helpfully tells us all, in post#35, what Tech diving is or, and i quote, "should be" about. Not diving to find rare algal blooms to cure cancer. Not harvesting boron silica deposits to power solar arrays. Nor rare earth minerals on African seabeds to free children from poverty. RJP concedes this is not a requirement. But a serious purpose is required. You need to have some objective..... like looking at an old rusty boat. That my friends is a REAL reason to dive deep. Just learning to conquer a challenge would be like having sex without trying to have children. I mean its just totally pointless. If you have any exhilaration from the learning, planning or execution of the dive then this is a warning sign that the person is a danger to themselves and everyone around.
Cos RJP really expects us to beleive that he did not feel any thrill the first time he did Trimix or had to do decompression. He never had a beer at the end of the day with his instructor and buddy and went 'hey guys that was unreal'. Yeah right mate - who are you kidding! Well good luck to you if you were too busy cataloging your boat rust density findings. Hell, I get you though man, I mean there is actually a Helium deficit in the world with all the party balloon manufacturers doing roaring trade. We have to keep all dives purposeful. The world is enriched by RJP seeeing an old rusty boat. Lets be frank, having fun on holiday just sends out the wrong message to new divers. We need to tell them that breathing underwater is a pointless side effect of the ultimate end-goal of going to visit a rusty boat. It is totally ridiculous that my girlfriend, like caring more about the colour of her new car than the gearbox ratios, is also more excited about the concept of breathing underwater and "seeing Nemo" than rust-watching. In fact, the foolhardy cretin might find those brain-numbing life-experiences exciting.
But RJP is correct. Despite my many words talking about self-discovery and adventure. About making videos and learning about gas mixtures. Despite me saying I want to learn now in a place where i know the depth leads to no wrecks (so it is all training for future wreck dives and caves), the truth is I plan to jump on board the first tech boat I can find, tell the Instructor to stick his advise up his **** and pull out a six-pack of Duff, let off a bag of firecrackers, then take three long pulls on a Helium tank and screech - last one to the bottom is a loser. That was my plan. This is what thrills me guys. Walking is so passe. I want permanent disability from my holiday. The bungalows are pretty sparce and the decompression chamber is pretty sweet by comparison - hell i pay so much for my DAN insurance - time to collect.
RJP - it may be helpful to the community if you could provide a list of objects or criteria which meet your approval.
I should also like to say that I beleive "thrill" could in fact be the PERFECT descrption of what you want a new buddy to say - stay with me..
If they say "FUN" that make me wonder if they understand the seriousness of what they are embarking on.
If they say "FRIGHTENED" them make me wonder if they are going to panic and not be able to control that
If they say "THRILL" - and in context - all of which was in the initial post#1 - it implies they want to be there, they know there is potential danger, they want to do it right, they know they need to listen and learn and they are not so up themselves that they think this is just some regular Rec dive that doesnt need super attention to detail. I also know they are excited about what they are doing so will pay as much attention to the planning as the execution. I also think they may be an honest person and not a total hypocrit so I wont mind buying them a beer at the end.
May I leave you with this:
I ask you RJP - if you were given the chance to go to space on a sub-orbital flight would you go?
- there is no science mission. no serious purpose for going. no rusty satelites to catalogue. you dont even get a porthole to look out. you just get to go somewhere few people ever go. you get to feel zero-G which you have always wondered about. feel what 9 G's feels like when a rocket explodes under your seat, you get to hang out with people with a similar passion to explore.
I have three questions for you?
1) would you find the experience thrilling? - be honest now
2) would you be a danger to everyone and not study and train?
3) would you want to buddy with someone who thought the experience was mundane
ps. Yes i am bored - sorry for the long post - and RJP - just joking mate - nothing personal - having some banter
As to the now main topic of this thread, which has been hijacked pretty much, I would say that my words in post#1 have been taken out of context, mainly by RJP whose rather bizarre posts on this thread leave me dumbstruck. RJP in post#35 continues to imply the same nonsense about me despite my clarification on post#9. Seems he has an agenda - and by reading the way, as much as what he writes, it is obvious to me what kind of Instructor he is. He says he wouldn't "take me on" in post#6, but aside from never being asked, he can be assured I wouldn't dream of giving him my business. He scares me. Rather hang out with AJ, NetDoc, TSandM, HungoverDiver, Seya, tomfcrist and Kensuf.
Funny how the Instructors who have clocked up 5000+ dives are relaxed and honest. Inclusive and welcoming. Probably they remember they were excited when they first learned Tech, and yet know themseves to be proficient, diligent and safety concious. I guess being truly masters of their game, they have nothing to prove either. Perhaps also they recognise that someone wanting to learn technical diving that didnt - among many other things - find the concept of diving beyond normal limits exhilarating/exciting/thrilling would be a weird person and probably unsafe. I humbly submit on behalf of students, that what we tech-newbies want from an instructor is confident leadership, not ego. Camaraderie not elitism. Since all the advise from everyone is to find an instructor I feel comfortable teaching me, I think RJP need not change his plans from impressing the college girls.
Just from a logic perspective, even if I was stating that my 'MAIN reason for tech diving was for the thrill', which i never said, then RJP helpfully tells us all, in post#35, what Tech diving is or, and i quote, "should be" about. Not diving to find rare algal blooms to cure cancer. Not harvesting boron silica deposits to power solar arrays. Nor rare earth minerals on African seabeds to free children from poverty. RJP concedes this is not a requirement. But a serious purpose is required. You need to have some objective..... like looking at an old rusty boat. That my friends is a REAL reason to dive deep. Just learning to conquer a challenge would be like having sex without trying to have children. I mean its just totally pointless. If you have any exhilaration from the learning, planning or execution of the dive then this is a warning sign that the person is a danger to themselves and everyone around.
Cos RJP really expects us to beleive that he did not feel any thrill the first time he did Trimix or had to do decompression. He never had a beer at the end of the day with his instructor and buddy and went 'hey guys that was unreal'. Yeah right mate - who are you kidding! Well good luck to you if you were too busy cataloging your boat rust density findings. Hell, I get you though man, I mean there is actually a Helium deficit in the world with all the party balloon manufacturers doing roaring trade. We have to keep all dives purposeful. The world is enriched by RJP seeeing an old rusty boat. Lets be frank, having fun on holiday just sends out the wrong message to new divers. We need to tell them that breathing underwater is a pointless side effect of the ultimate end-goal of going to visit a rusty boat. It is totally ridiculous that my girlfriend, like caring more about the colour of her new car than the gearbox ratios, is also more excited about the concept of breathing underwater and "seeing Nemo" than rust-watching. In fact, the foolhardy cretin might find those brain-numbing life-experiences exciting.
But RJP is correct. Despite my many words talking about self-discovery and adventure. About making videos and learning about gas mixtures. Despite me saying I want to learn now in a place where i know the depth leads to no wrecks (so it is all training for future wreck dives and caves), the truth is I plan to jump on board the first tech boat I can find, tell the Instructor to stick his advise up his **** and pull out a six-pack of Duff, let off a bag of firecrackers, then take three long pulls on a Helium tank and screech - last one to the bottom is a loser. That was my plan. This is what thrills me guys. Walking is so passe. I want permanent disability from my holiday. The bungalows are pretty sparce and the decompression chamber is pretty sweet by comparison - hell i pay so much for my DAN insurance - time to collect.
RJP - it may be helpful to the community if you could provide a list of objects or criteria which meet your approval.
I should also like to say that I beleive "thrill" could in fact be the PERFECT descrption of what you want a new buddy to say - stay with me..
If they say "FUN" that make me wonder if they understand the seriousness of what they are embarking on.
If they say "FRIGHTENED" them make me wonder if they are going to panic and not be able to control that
If they say "THRILL" - and in context - all of which was in the initial post#1 - it implies they want to be there, they know there is potential danger, they want to do it right, they know they need to listen and learn and they are not so up themselves that they think this is just some regular Rec dive that doesnt need super attention to detail. I also know they are excited about what they are doing so will pay as much attention to the planning as the execution. I also think they may be an honest person and not a total hypocrit so I wont mind buying them a beer at the end.
May I leave you with this:
I ask you RJP - if you were given the chance to go to space on a sub-orbital flight would you go?
- there is no science mission. no serious purpose for going. no rusty satelites to catalogue. you dont even get a porthole to look out. you just get to go somewhere few people ever go. you get to feel zero-G which you have always wondered about. feel what 9 G's feels like when a rocket explodes under your seat, you get to hang out with people with a similar passion to explore.
I have three questions for you?
1) would you find the experience thrilling? - be honest now
2) would you be a danger to everyone and not study and train?
3) would you want to buddy with someone who thought the experience was mundane
ps. Yes i am bored - sorry for the long post - and RJP - just joking mate - nothing personal - having some banter
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Hey epoque, I think you got off on the wrong foot due to nothing more than semantics and having stumbled on a word that has become a "hot button." It is semantically splitting hairs, but I believe there is a difference between simply being "thrilled" by something and "thrill seeking." Another term that has been used for a thrill seeker is "adrenaline junkie." Someone who seeks out "danger" purely for the sensory reward of having survived something dangerous. Endorphin rush, and all that. There is an element of recklessness associated with thrill seeking. The term is often associated with "extreme sports."
"Thrill" and "thrilling," as used in their ordinary everyday context, can be confused with "thrill seeking." There's nothing inherently wrong with being "thrilled" with various aspects of diving. But it seems the use of any term that includes "thrill" can trigger a knee-jerk reaction. Even in recreational PADI courses, I distinctly recall being taught that although there are many valid reasons to dive, thrill-seeking is NOT one of them. For example, in my PADI Deep course, it was taught that "for the thrill of it" is NOT a reason to "dive deep." I believe these wise admonitions have planted the word "thrill" in some people's minds and created a hot button, to the extent that any time such a person hears another diver mention the word "thrill" it triggers the knee-jerk response of "not a valid reason" and raises a yellow flag as to whether the person is merely thrill seeking.
"Thrill" and "thrilling," as used in their ordinary everyday context, can be confused with "thrill seeking." There's nothing inherently wrong with being "thrilled" with various aspects of diving. But it seems the use of any term that includes "thrill" can trigger a knee-jerk reaction. Even in recreational PADI courses, I distinctly recall being taught that although there are many valid reasons to dive, thrill-seeking is NOT one of them. For example, in my PADI Deep course, it was taught that "for the thrill of it" is NOT a reason to "dive deep." I believe these wise admonitions have planted the word "thrill" in some people's minds and created a hot button, to the extent that any time such a person hears another diver mention the word "thrill" it triggers the knee-jerk response of "not a valid reason" and raises a yellow flag as to whether the person is merely thrill seeking.
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