Bent in Belize--Blue Hole Incident

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Possible the reason you feel different is cos you dived OC rather than CCR. Just guessing of course but OC is easier to get CO2 build up than CCR (assuming not over working the breather or having break thru), especially when not used to using lungs to control buoyancy which can lead to skip breathing - I do this myself sometimes and it's unpleasant and causes headaches etc.

I normally do liveaboards 3 times a year for a week or more, don't miss a dive, and never feel any different than a couple of day boat dives and frequently feel much better.

However please don't let me distract either of you from what has been an interesting and informative bitch fest :)

J
 
Just because it's "pretty standard" doesn't mean it's smart. I get that most pretty fish people don't have the training to understand why it isn't the greatest idea

I think you're totally missing the point that Vladimir was making. I'm only unsure as to why. The point he is making is that as it's "pretty standard" practice and people aren't constantly being airlifted off these boats, the implication is that it's "pretty safe". Anything that's "pretty safe" is in my book OK to do.

Diving has intrinsic dangers, and although these can be minimised they cannot be eliminated. Every dive is a balance of risks and judgement. I place the dividing line where I feel comfortable, and I have countless times performed the dive the OP described, admittedly not quite in the manner that he approached it, with much the same basic recreational equipment. I have also dived in the same place to deeper depths and/or for longer durations with very much more involved equipment. I always estimate the risk I'm exposing myself to and equip myself accordingly. That doesn't mean I'm immune from risk, and if unforeseen events conspire sufficiently severely I shall be in trouble. That is the case on every dive, "tech" or "rec". As I said above, I try to keep within my personal comfort zone, which may be quite different from someone else's.

The above applies to dives I am making solo, or with companions whose skills and behaviour I feel comfortable with. When I'm teaching I apply completely different standards, not particularly because I feel the need to show my student how it should be done (though that is so) but because I'm now diving for two, I'm carrying gas for two, and my companion certainly CANNOT be trusted to behave rationally.


The dive the OP was describing is, or should be considered a tech dive and treated as such. Just about all the dives done here in Northeast are deeper than 100 feet so they are too. If you get on a boat without a reel, lift bag, backup gas, people will look at you funny at the very least, and most operators wouldn't let you dive like that

>100ft does not make a dive a "tech" dive, whatever that is. Dives MUCH deeper than that are routinely performed by British divers with only basic (British) training. Training which is much more demanding than certain basic US tech courses. And the dives are never undertaken in a vacuum, but mentored in a club atmosphere by experienced divers. The dividing line there between "rec" and "tech" is pretty fuzzy, but most dives there considered to be "rec" are definitely regarded as "tech" to the west of the Atlantic.

In England lift bags are banned by some operators for certain dives, where they don't want people stripping wrecks. DSMBs however are pretty well mandatory. Here in "pretty fish" territory in Belize I rarely ever take a lift bag, but I take a DSMB on every dive.

I don't know whether your reference to "pretty fish divers" was intended to be offensive, but I'm afraid it did rather come over that way. Offensive and conceited. Just because people choose to make a certain type of dive does NOT mean that it is the limit of their training and experience. Just because people limit the equipment they take down with them to what is needed for the dive does NOT imply that they don't possess or know how to use more elaborate equipment. I am perfectly happy taking a single tank in a conventional recreational BC on a dive for which I consider no more is needed. For a more demanding dive I'll take more elaborate equipment.

One question - was the fact that you used sidemount gear in Fiji relevant to your safety on those dives? Just wondering why you mentioned it.

And you must tell me the trick to feeling that you never went in the water after diving CCR. Perhaps if you dive a very high pO2, which would suggest you don't do many CCR hours in a day. On long dives I now don't go above 1.2 or sometimes 1.1 - even 1.0 when diving repeated days - and I always know I've been diving.
 
I think you're totally missing the point that Vladimir was making. I'm only unsure as to why. The point he is making is that as it's "pretty standard" practice and people aren't constantly being airlifted off these boats, the implication is that it's "pretty safe". Anything that's "pretty safe" is in my book OK to do..

I am very glad the OP is ok now. The fact remains that what happened here was an unplanned deco, no bailout (and there was an OOA emergency with another diver), followed by a dive with no depth or time instruments. My own opinion is that everyone is responsible for their own diving and I just hope that people are taking the time to figure out what's going on. I did not mean to be insulting (pretty fish diving, that's what I call it when I do it too). I know that your training in the UK is something way more comprehensive than what most divers get here in the US for an OW cert. I remember that when I started boat diving, I was using air and navy tables, and I recall thinking that my NDL limits on the second dives were really short, despite a two hour surface interval. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think tables and repetitive dive groups are taught in many OW classes any longer so how do these divers plan for multiple dives? The computer is nice, but they are all different and obviously of no use when they go flying to pieces, like in the OP's scenario.

>100ft does not make a dive a "tech" dive, whatever that is. Dives MUCH deeper than that are routinely performed by British divers with only basic (British) training. Training which is much more demanding than certain basic US tech courses. And the dives are never undertaken in a vacuum, but mentored in a club atmosphere by experienced divers. The dividing line there between "rec" and "tech" is pretty fuzzy, but most dives there considered to be "rec" are definitely regarded as "tech" to the west of the Atlantic.


100 for 15 minutes is a recreational dive, but push it out to a 60 minute bottom time and I'd call that a "tech" dive. Do three 100 foot dives in a day, even short ones, and you've got some planning considerations, don't you think?


>One question - was the fact that you used sidemount gear in Fiji relevant to your safety on those dives? Just wondering why you mentioned it.

And you must tell me the trick to feeling that you never went in the water after diving CCR. Perhaps if you dive a very high pO2, which would suggest you don't do many CCR hours in a day. On long dives I now don't go above 1.2 or sometimes 1.1 - even 1.0 when diving repeated days - and I always know I've been diving.

The sidemount rig was relevant to safey only in that I feel more comfortable diving that way (and I don't have any single tank gear), I've got redundancy and tons of gas and a nice long hose if someone does have an OOA emergency as the OP described. I mentioned it because other people were talking about how they'd approach that blue hole dive more safely.

On the CCR thing, let's take that 100 foot dive for a 60 minute bottom time. How would you feel after the dive if you did it on Nitrox & 02 v. the CCR on 1.2 or 1.3? I know that if I do that dive on the CCR and stay in the water for the same amount of time (meaning there's some deco padding), I feel way better after the dive than I do on OC. How do you feel doing the same dive on air v. nitrox v. nitrox +o2 v. the CCR? Do you notice any difference?

My point overall is that if you're going to do the 3-5 dives a day, you're taking a greater risk than if you do 2 per day with a nice surface interval. I don't think it can logically be argued otherwise. I just urge everyone to please take the time to plan them out and be safe, because it doesn't look like you're going to get much help in that department (nor should you expect it).

Safe diving,

Bill
 
Thank you for taking the time. I love diving, I love everything about it, well except the cost! I can see myself doing the same thing before I could see myself canceling a once in a life time dive. But when I am in that situation I will remind myself of this story. You may have just saved the life of someone you don't even know.
 
I have not commented on this thread till I read this quote. I am not sure if you are referring to the experience "after" getting DSC or the whole process? I took a DSC hit over two years ago. If I had it to do all over again....I know many things I would change and there are many things I HAVE changed since that time. I would never beat you up for the mistakes...most people who have been diving for any length of time have gotten away with a few stupid things. BUT I think accident analysis demands that we do things differently, otherwise we are "doomed to repeat it."

Well, okay, I would have bought that computer I was looking at, worn it and my old one, brought my depth gauge, packed a better lunch, skipped the post-dive drinks, bought dive-specific insurance, and planned on a less agressive vacation. Oh, and I've have bought that magic filter. The post-processing is taking FOREVER.

But other than THAT...

No, seriously, what I meant what I learned about myself, my relationship with my ex, and Belize was worth the hit. Hell, it was worth the 10k. Getting reimbursed is frosting on the cake.

---------- Post Merged at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:03 AM ----------

Thank you for taking the time. I love diving, I love everything about it, well except the cost! I can see myself doing the same thing before I could see myself canceling a once in a life time dive. But when I am in that situation I will remind myself of this story. You may have just saved the life of someone you don't even know.

Thank you, that was the point. The next guy gets to learn the easy way.

Also, buy dive insurance.
 
Thank you for sharing your story so that all of us "newbies" can learn from your mistake. Seriously, I learned a lot from your story. :dork2:
 
Well, okay, I would have bought that computer I was looking at, worn it and my old one, brought my depth gauge, packed a better lunch, skipped the post-dive drinks, bought dive-specific insurance, and planned on a less agressive vacation. Oh, and I've have bought that magic filter. The post-processing is taking FOREVER.

But other than THAT...

No, seriously, what I meant what I learned about myself, my relationship with my ex, and Belize was worth the hit. Hell, it was worth the 10k. Getting reimbursed is frosting on the cake.

---------- Post Merged at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:03 AM ----------



Thank you, that was the point. The next guy gets to learn the easy way.

Also, buy dive insurance.

first let me say im glad your not dead or worse........im also glad you have the candor you do ...maybe you saved a life recounting your "hit"..now, i see this all the time people diving where they shouldnt be ,(i quit a dive club that i taught at for 18 years for the same thing ).......its ok to push the envelope.....not rip it open . get the training for these dives people !!! if you stand in front of enough trains , you get hit . if you fly out of the country without insurance , thats criminal,stupid and careless. im glad as adan instructor i have to carry it (i would even if i didnt have too )......if you are trained in deep deco dives , the more dives you do the more the chance for dcs...its just stastistics ...............................
 
No interest in reading 29 pages but I wonder if the whole seperate trip (breakup?) with wife put you in a "don't give a sh*t" attitude.
 
Who knew you could have a number for a username?!?
 
first let me say im glad your not dead or worse........im also glad you have the candor you do ...maybe you saved a life recounting your "hit"..now, i see this all the time people diving where they shouldnt be ,(i quit a dive club that i taught at for 18 years for the same thing ).......its ok to push the envelope.....not rip it open . get the training for these dives people !!! if you stand in front of enough trains , you get hit . if you fly out of the country without insurance , thats criminal,stupid and careless. im glad as adan instructor i have to carry it (i would even if i didnt have too )......if you are trained in deep deco dives , the more dives you do the more the chance for dcs...its just stastistics ...............................

You're welcome, and I'm glad to be here to discuss it. It looks like there's a dozen or more people that might have done something stupid that'll remember my story. So there is that. That's why I posted the whole thing, so that people like DDM and TSM could find out what really happened. And everyone else who thinks, like me, that it couldn't happen to them.

Now, I did have travel insurance. I didn't have DAN insurance, so it wasn't 100% sure that they would cover hyberbaric treatment. They decided it was medically necessary so are going to reimburse me, and as they said this morning, the cheque is in the mail. I probably would have bought the DAN membership if I hadn't been stressed out about the separation. I will once I get back into diving. (It'll be a little weird to refer to my own post as the "why are you getting DAN insurance?", but hey...) While it was nice to get all the points and thus get an XBox for $15, it's been another source of stress that I didn't really need. Is this what Americans live like all the time? In my life I've paid under $100 for medical expenses, $65 for an ambulance ride and $25 for... uh, accessories for surgery that married men get. Of course, the family pays about $100 a month for the premiums.


1.3:
No interest in reading 29 pages but I wonder if the whole seperate trip (breakup?) with wife put you in a "don't give a sh*t" attitude.​

Quite possibly. You can't judge your own sanity. "Self, this seems perfectly reasonable." "I agree!" I've been seeing a counselor on my own to sort that out, but the accident did short-circuit years of therapy. The trip was planned before the breakup, but odds are I wouldn't have had anything to drink if we were still together.


Another note: I've been able to ramp up to my regular activity level. I'm biking to work, teaching spin classes, doing yoga and other classes. I feel better when I'm exercising. The tingling ramps up a bit at night but gets better every day. The doctors here said they couldn't do much, the machines that test for damage end at the palms.

My echocardiogram is on the 25th, I'll let you know what, if anything, they find. (I've been waiting for that since January)
 
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