bent bad in Grand cayman

[Scubaguy62]

Mike, glad to know you're doing ok. Thanks for your post! Hope you get to dive again soon!

 

[ScubaFreak]

Hi Mike,

Just read your post, hope everything works out the way you want, and maybe you might get time to do that PFO when ye feel up to it!!
Don't be disheartened, you were so lucky to be able to walk away, and I echo what others said, don't hang up those fins just yet.

Good luck buddy

SF

 

[Debraw]

Thank you for the in depth report and answering all of the questions everyone had. I am sorry to hear you got hit. I hope it does not happen to you again and if I had a hit like that I don't think my family would want me to dive again either. Good luck and I hope you get well soon!

 

[cdennyb]

Your profile shows a runtime of 55 minutes. He was only down for 31 TOTAL.
Either way, I've done 110ft dives on an 80 with a total runtime of over 45 minutes with 500 left at the surface.
You've also got him at 96ft for a full 5 minutes.

Reread the initial posts:

Try rerunning it as a multilevel, beginning with 2 minutes at 96ft, ascending to, say 89ft for 4 minutes, then 19 minutes at 39ft.
That 19 minutes above 40ft, plus the 5 minutes at 15 were more than adequate to clear (31-19=)12 minutes... even if the entire 12 minutes had been at 100ft.

Most certainly an "undeserved" hit.

perhaps undeserved and perhaps not. Remember he's on air and not directly being slow to drop to the 96 ft. depth either. I would assume the profile I did was a conservative one and whether or not it was a Led dive, I'd take a second look at the profile. I'm very interested in what you found out running the profile like you stated. I'm sure there's a lot of room for variables even if he was at 96' for only 2 minutes. He still had to get there and that took some time, even if it was only a minute or two. The tissues were loading the whole time until he turned to the surface at about 60' or so. I would take that part of the profile to mean it's now a really slow ascent to the surface or a stop, either way, going to 15' for only 3 minutes doesn't seem like enough.
I'm with you though, I've done the 100' thing too but not on air (if I can help it at all). And doing the dive on 80 cu ft total doesn't leave a third or a fourth or even a tenth for "what if's".
I'd be a little sceptical in diving those profiles on a single tank but what the hell, they do it all time in the islands.
thanks for your input. I'll look at this further in my spare time.
db

 

[Scuba]

I'm not a diving doc, but with paralysis involved, I would say so.

Thats two of us. I would agree. The particular incident mentioned on that post does not state the type of DCS hit. If it was mentioned on some other post, I missed it. I suppose we can assume it was neurological, hence the PFO test.

 

[RichLockyer]

perhaps undeserved and perhaps not. Remember he's on air and not directly being slow to drop to the 96 ft. depth either. I would assume the profile I did was a conservative one and whether or not it was a Led dive, I'd take a second look at the profile. I'm very interested in what you found out running the profile like you stated.

I couldn't run 95ft for 2 minutes and 89ft for 4 because they were too close together, but running the entire 6 minute deep portion of the dive at 95 gives this:

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 95ft (1) on Air, 50ft/min descent.
Level 95ft 4:06 (6) on Air, 0.81 ppO2, 95ft ead
Asc to 40ft (7) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Level 40ft 19:00 (26) on Air, 0.46 ppO2, 40ft ead
Asc to 20ft (27) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Asc to 15ft (27) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Asc to sfc. (28) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 4
CNS Total: 1.5%

56.2 cu ft Air
56.2 cu ft TOTAL


Here, he should have been clear even without the extra 5 minutes at 15ft.
Even pushing conservatism to +4 didn't change the schedule.

 

[OBie]

miked - from the antipodes, thanks for the info on your unfortunate and undeserved 'hit'; I have had the benefit of observing and operating a chamber in Port Moresby, and over the course of a couple of years 'drove' patients and attendants up and down, and I can only sympathise with what you went through and are now suffering.

For the others 'wet ones' out there, my advice is if you have the opportunity to observe a chamber activity, or even better if the opportunity arises when your local gives demos, go for a ride - you'll be far better informed upon 'surfacing'.

My lasting impression is that it's so bloody boring being in there for a USN6 or more that we should do all we can to avoid a 'hit'.

Regards,

 

[scububa]

...probably the best thread I have been through on any board (scuba or other).

I am a pretty new diver myself. I too have wrestled with the DAN and insurance issue. I too feel I pay attention to my training and computer. I too have had my eyes opened a little wider by the education of this thread.

Mike, thank you for the posting and the complete followups.

Everyone, thank you for keeping the focus relavent and on learning as much as possible.

I know this doesn't add to the education, but just wanted to let you all know that you have 'screwed on' one more thinking cap.

Jim

 

[underseegolfer]

Hi,

PFO is a communication path between both heart auricules. That communication must exist when the baby is not born but must close after. In some people remains a little hole (up to 8 millimeters!!) and it's posible they don't feel anything. In fact both auricules work to different pressures and is difficult that the vein blood goes to the higher pressure arterial blood auricule. But if it is so and the vein blood carries bubbles, well that is no good, in the vein system the blood goes to the lungs and they do a very good work letting leave the bubbles. No so the remain of your body cells.

Hey Mike, PFO is reparable, there are a couple of surgery technics available, and they are not so complicated or hard nor need a big surgery may be done with cateter? (I don't how it says in English).

I'm sure you will be up, running and diving soon. Yours is very bad cos ,I am new in this but I have a great respect for the diving risks, but I can see a lot of people diving and they go surface from 14m (43f aprox.) just inflating their bc in about 5 secs. And that people are fine. Sometimes life it's so. I'm sorry Mike, please take it easy and think (I know its dumb) we are a lot of people thinking in you and supporting you, from everywhere in the world.

See you again,
Be good,
Pepe

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what is a PFO

 

[cdennyb]

I couldn't run 95ft for 2 minutes and 89ft for 4 because they were too close together, but running the entire 6 minute deep portion of the dive at 95 gives this:

DIVE PLAN
Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 95ft (1) on Air, 50ft/min descent.
Level 95ft 4:06 (6) on Air, 0.81 ppO2, 95ft ead
Asc to 40ft (7) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Level 40ft 19:00 (26) on Air, 0.46 ppO2, 40ft ead
Asc to 20ft (27) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Asc to 15ft (27) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Asc to sfc. (28) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 4
CNS Total: 1.5%

56.2 cu ft Air
56.2 cu ft TOTAL


Here, he should have been clear even without the extra 5 minutes at 15ft.
Even pushing conservatism to +4 didn't change the schedule.

V-Planner 3.43 by R. Hemingway, VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

Decompression model: VPM-B

DIVE PLAN #1
Surface interval = 0 day 3 hr 30 min.
Elevation = 0ft
Conservatism = + 2

Dec to 80ft (4) on Air, 20ft/min descent.
Level 80ft 21:00 (25) on Air, 0.72 ppO2, 80ft ead
Dec to 96ft (25) on Air, 20ft/min descent.
Level 96ft 5:12 (31) on Air, 0.82 ppO2, 96ft ead
Asc to 40ft (32) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.
Stop at 40ft 3:08 (36) on Air, 0.46 ppO2, 40ft ead
Stop at 30ft 5:00 (41) on Air, 0.40 ppO2, 30ft ead
Stop at 20ft 9:00 (50) on Air, 0.34 ppO2, 20ft ead
Level 15ft 5:00 (54) on Air, 0.31 ppO2, 15ft ead
Asc to sfc. (55) on Air, -30ft/min ascent.

OTU's this dive: 16
CNS Total: 6.0%

100.8 cu ft Air
100.8 cu ft TOTAL


Strange how travel speed afects the total consumption. I guess the interpretation is the variable in this equation. Good work Rich. I'm honestly curious now how the numbers get changed as the absorbtion rate changes. Now you've done it...I'm going to hae to sit down and run a bunch of different profiles with these numbers just to see how they might affect "me".
Cool, this is going to take a day or so.
db