Benefit of Nitrox?

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Well it IS a tool for a purpose, although I doubt the extra knowledge exploded your brain :p

As to it being a "waste of money" to use nitrox when its "not needed" - that depends entirely on the supplier. Some provide it for the same cost as they provide air (typically not pp-blenders)

A screw driver is a tool with purpose but if all you have it nails it isn't all that helpful.

The cost I was referring to was the class and then the O2 cleaning of 4 of my tanks because the LDS I use only blends. Nitrox is double the cost of air at that LDS and most others around here which ain't many.

The knowledge wasn't new to me. We were taught about O2 PP, O2 exposure hazards and toxicity back in 1968 during my original training long before nitrox was used by sport divers. I asked the instructor to just let me take the test, but he insisted I sit thru the classes. I already knew how to use the tables and formulas for calculating the MODs of blends not in the tables like the 28% used for dives to 130FSW for example.

I finished the test 10min before anybody else and got 100%, big deal. The whole thing was a total waste for me. I put my cert card on the fridge to remind me.
 
For novice divers, in short, you shouldn't feel fatigued after scuba diving. If you do.... or if you notice nitrox 'reducing fatigue', then also consider analyzing and refining your ascent practices....

Andy, I hold the greatest respect for you in this field, but that is what we lawyers call "counsel to perfection", ie. something that is great to advise people to do, but something we all realise is never likely to happen in the real world in which everyone lives.

The bullet points you list in your post are great for technical divers carrying multiple gases diving to a carefully crafted plan. But much less relevant for occasional casual divers wearing a single Al80 filled with air. For those people post-dive fatigue is not only a reality, but probably a normality.

I think saying that people diving on air shouldn't suffer post-dive fatigue if they just dive "properly" kind of begs its own question. If we are saying (even agreeing?) that one can stretch that tolerance by using EAN32 rather than air, then we are not saying actually anything about post-dive fatigue that we are not already saying about NDLs.
 
I don't know if any of you posting in this thread that post nitrox reduces fatigue are over 60 but when you get there let us know if nitrox is still working for you.

After I get done toting dive gear down the rocks, gear up, dive, and tote it all back up the rocks only a miracle would make me not fell fatigue.

You guys dive in an entirely different reality than I do. Liveaboards, charter boats, nice but it's not part of my reality.
 
I don't know if any of you posting in this thread that post nitrox reduces fatigue are over 60 but when you get there let us know if nitrox is still working for you.
I'll make a note in my calendar. Look out for a follow-up in about eight years.

You guys dive in an entirely different reality than I do. Liveaboards, charter boats, nice but it's not part of my reality.
Not all of "us guys" live in that different reality. My reality is >90% shore dives or diving from my own little boat¹, so probably not so far removed from your reality.


¹ Where I personally load my gear from my car down to the jetty and into the boat, hose it down after the trip and then lug it back up.
 
I'll make a note in my calendar. Look out for a follow-up in about eight years.


Not all of "us guys" live in that different reality. My reality is >90% shore dives or diving from my own little boat¹, so probably not so far removed from your reality.


¹ Where I personally load my gear from my car down to the jetty and into the boat, hose it down after the trip and then lug it back up.

That's more like it! :wink: You left out the part where nitrox makes you feel less fatigue post dive. :)
 
It seems to me that what first needs to be establish is an objective measure of fatigue. Then an attempt to determine the cause of the fatigue being measured. I will continue to appreciate the lessened fatigue I get from using Nitrox placebo or not.
 
You left out the part where nitrox makes you feel less fatigue post dive. :)

You asked for testimonies/anecdotes from those over 60. If you want mine, you'll have to wait :wink:
 

Andy, I hold the greatest respect for you in this field, but that is what we lawyers call "counsel to perfection", ie. something that is great to advise people to do, but something we all realise is never likely to happen in the real world in which everyone lives.

The bullet points you list in your post are great for technical divers carrying multiple gases diving to a carefully crafted plan. But much less relevant for occasional casual divers wearing a single Al80 filled with air. For those people post-dive fatigue is not only a reality, but probably a normality.

I think saying that people diving on air shouldn't suffer post-dive fatigue if they just dive "properly" kind of begs its own question. If we are saying (even agreeing?) that one can stretch that tolerance by using EAN32 rather than air, then we are not saying actually anything about post-dive fatigue that we are not already saying about NDLs.

I understand your point, but all of the recommendations I made are actually available within recreational diving syllabus. It just depends on the agency.

...it's just "not the way the world learn's to dive"... :)

For instance, with ANDI, teach as standard to all divers:

1. Ascent with stops: 3 level safety stops / 6 minutes from 9m to surface (1min @ 9m / 2 min @ 6m / 2 min @ 3m)

2. 50% O2 as "ideal ascent gas" taught on 'Complete Safeair User' (CSU), which is Nitrox Diver equivalent course and pre-requisite for most level 2 (advanced recreational) courses (deep, wreck etc)

I disagree that recommending anything above, or beyond, the basic dross taught by McDiver agencies is 'counselling to perfection' or 'technical'.

"What I find alarming, is that some entry level training agencies (not to mention any names), given all this recent knowledge and changing trends, haven’t altered their tables since their inception. The question is whether as instructors we should alter our methods to take some of these things into account. I think that certainly as experienced divers we should adopt safer decompression strategies. The recommendations for entry level training are obviously more limited, but I think we have a responsibility to adopt the safest possible methods for our trainees given the knowledge available."
THE TROUBLE WITH BUBBLES. Richard Heads PhD. 9-90 Magazine: UK Diving in Depth

Like he said...

---------- Post added September 8th, 2015 at 12:13 AM ----------

Don't you think that this statement is playing the reference of words a little to much????? It seems that even your wording says on a scale of 0-10,, 0 being bad and 10 being good nitrox gets a higher score on the feeling scale. GEEESHMO BETTER OR LESS WORSE???????

Not really.... if we're talking about reducing decompression stress/sub-clinical DCS/micro-bubbles, rather than any physical property of nitrox that makes us feel better.What I'm suggesting is that many divers accept post-dive lethargy as a normal issue. It isn't, or should be.

If post-dive lethargy has become an accepted norm, but nitrox relieves that... it is "less worse". Assuming all else is equal.... and that the diver off-gasses efficiently.... then nitrox would have little discernable impact on post-dive vitality.

If, however, you compare two dives that result in decompression stress (inefficient off-gassing / higher micro-bubble frequency), then using nitrox would provide an additional barrier against decompression stress, reducing micro-bubbles... and the diver using nitrox would feel better than the diver using just air.

Nitrox DOES increase the efficiency of off-gassing (lower pN2 remember...), it's not just about longer bottom times and initial absorption rates...

In short:

1. Nitrox decreases decompression stress.
2. Decompression stress decreases post-dive vitality.
3. If a given dive induces decompression stress, nitrox improves post-dive vitality.
4. If there is minimal decompression stress, no improved post-dive vitality is witnessed.


ergo... nitrox does not make you feel 'better'. :wink:
 
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Third dive of the day! I haven't done 3 dives in a day in 20 years! This thread just keeps reinforcing my regret at becoming nitrox cert.
as i noted early on, nitrox is useful if you hit ndls before gas limits.

this does not automatically mean that multiple dives per day REQUIRES nitrox. air may also be an option. how close to ndl are you?

we mostly do liveaboards. we do not use nitrox. our dive profiles are conservative and long. we are generally the first in and last out of the water. i find there are lots of interesting things to see in the shallows... five 70 minute dives a day can easily be done on air.
 
IF YOU CAN"T HIT NDLs WITH A SINGLE TANK DON'T DO NITROX. YOU WILL FIND IT A GROSS WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.
I dive single tanks most of the time. Occasionally I hit my ndl or a little beyond but after a slow ascent and stop I surface with time to spare. I have over 2,000 dives and have never made more than three dives per day. I rarely make more than two. I don't need nitrox for that. Also, my ascents are so slow that the only time I feel fatigued is when I have to lug my gear up a 200 foot cliff trail. I haven't done that for awhile. :)
 

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