Beginner Divers on Advanced Dives?

[GW Diver]

Does anyone think that new divers should be diving Advanced Dives? Is it safe to introduce that to a less than 20 dives diver? Im asking because a friend/co-worker went on a advanced dive to the Speigel Grove and that wreck can be tricky. He also didnt know it was advanced till I mentioned it.

 

[markfm]

Was he paired up with a DM as guide?
When I was there over Christmas conditions were perfect -- low current. Still, it's a true deep dive, and if anything goes bad it can hit the fan quickly. Not a good time to learn that a person tends towards a dark narc, or hasn't really got the hang of mask clearing, or...

 

[RonFrank]

Does anyone think that new divers should be diving Advanced Dives? Is it safe to introduce that to a less than 20 dives diver? Im asking because a friend/co-worker went on a advanced dive to the Speigel Grove and that wreck can be tricky. He also didnt know it was advanced till I mentioned it.

Most diveOps require AOW, and/or three logged dives of 80feet or more in the past six months.

Aquanuts was rather firm about AOW, and it did not matter if you had been diving since the 60's (as my cousin had) they were not going to take her out there without AOW (which she also had, but I was not sure when we were setting up the trip).

Other diveOps have similar requirements. The other option is to hire a DM or instructor as a buddy for the dive.

Speigel Grove with no current is really not all that advanced assuming you stay above 100fsw, and don't penetrate the wreck. However things can go wrong at even 80fsw.

 

[timle]

We went to the keys in January. We were not advanced, we are now, got our NAUI advanced on in February but thats a different story.

Anyhow we dove with the same shop 3 days in a row. On the third day we did the Duane and the Spiegel Grove. We felt comfortable with the dives and the safe diving we did on the previous two days put the shop at ease. We didn't do any swim throughs and stayed around 100 on the Duane and 80 on the Grove. I wouldn't recommend this to everyone but we did feel up to the task, and earned our advanced on our very next dive trip.

 

[Walter]

Does anyone think that new divers should be diving Advanced Dives? Is it safe to introduce that to a less than 20 dives diver?

An OW diver with 20 dives is a more advanced diver than an AOW diver with 9 dives. AOW is a joke. The Grove isn't automatically an "advanced dive," although it can be.

 

[The Kraken]

Walter makes a very good point.

I know of divers who took trips to do their OW certification dives only to follow them IMMEDIATELY with their AOW certifications on the same trip.

Now these divers, with less than 10 lifetime dives, can dive the Spiegle Grove with most any charter.

the K

 

[Skeeter1097]

I can only think that some divers take that card to the letter. I now a Pearson that has 75 dives. I dive with him sometimes. he scarer's me,all over the place Head and arms in holes looking for bugs. He drinks air like I did on my first few dives. He went throw a dive week and got certified ow and aow in a week.
I am not aow yet 33 dives. dive with Buddy's with 1000+ dives. dove on Spiegel Grove last weekend, Was grate. I would not do it with the unmanaged diver with 75 dives. The card is only as good as the instructor that gave it to you.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Good point, Skeeter. And that card is only as good as the diver who takes the time and expends the effort to hone and sharpen their skills, constantly. Even if it's only in a swimming pool, fine. Practice taking the mask off, spitting out the reg, recovering both, removing one's BC underwater, putting it back on, etc.

Next week, my instructor and I are going back to the pool. He's putting the black-out kit on my mask, and then running 50' of rope through my equipment and all around me, so that I can practice self-rescue in low-viz conditions. I want every bit of training I can possibly get. To me, a "C-card" means nothing. It only opens the door to greater training opportunities, and the responsibility to my buddies and to myself to become the very best diver I possibly can.

 

[BusterDive]

Know your charts backwards and forwards, then go buy a computer. Never EVER panic, maintain your equipment, if you don't feel comfortable doing something don't do it, spend at least 15 minutes every dive (usually the last dive) at about twenty feet practicing all your scenarios, and find a trustworthy buddy who will do the same.
I would feel more comfortable diving with someone with 20 dives and good old fashioned common sense than a 1000+ logged hotdog.

 

[tstormdiver]

Although I'm still very new to diving & by far not an expert. I'd like to put in my 2 cent's worth. I took my OW class in Sept.2006 for an upcoming vacation. After that class I was hooked. Not really knowing any other divers (the others in my class were from a considerable distance and had spouses/ family for buddies) or diving sites (rather land locked here in KY) I decided to participate in an AOW class a month later to help open up new doors & horizons in diving here in KY. For me the deep diving part of the course was a disaster. It was the first dive of the class. After studying the week before, and being briefed on the dive by the instructor we prepared for the dive. I had new fins & did not realize the proper way to lock the straps in & we also had to use 7mm suits because the water was very cold below 50' in the quarry (about 40- 45 degrees).This was the first time I had ever used a wet suit and I found out quickly that motion is very limited in a 7mm suit. To top it all off I was not weighted enough and when we got to the descent area, I had to hand over hand pull myself down until the air compressed out of the suit and I began to descend on my own. I got a bit out of breath from the effort. Once on the bottom the instructor had us to do some simple math problems to test for nitrogen narcosis, all the while I was having problems with my weight belt, as it kept trying to fall around my ankles & I couldn't tighten it any more (actually I could from the other side, but I didn't know until after the dive). We then went for a short swimming tour of the quarry. My right fin then slipped off and I had to go after it with my one remaining fin. My breathing the got really out of whack at that point. An assisting dive master saw I was having problems and came over. He helped me get the fin back on, but by then my regulator started freezing up (due to cold water & the fact that compressed air is cold when it comes out & I was breathing very rapidly). I quickly statred to overbreathe the regulator and started to inhale water. It proved too much for me at the time & I can say it was the first time I have ever panicked in my life. The dive master saw what was happening & grabbed my BCD & we started heading for the surface. We stopped at the 15' safety stop mark (although I wanted to keep going). As soon as I got to the warmer water, my regulator unfroze & as I started breathing normally again, I started to relax. The dive master stayed with me and used body language & hand signs to keep me calm. I looked at this incident not as a failure, but a challenge. The rest of the course went without incident. Needless to say I learned several things about my equipment & my abillities, from that dive. I have since made a couple of deep dives with no problems. I look at the experience as good lesson and am glad that when things did go wrong I was under the care of a very good instructor and the dive masters assisting him. They helped to get me through the situation safely (though shook- up for a short while) and gave me confidence to continue the class and to discover more of the world of diving. I learned a new respect for the things that can go wrong, but it has also increased my curiosity and I plan to continue my diving education for the long term through my instructor. I will personally try to use that experience to judge against any situations I may find myself in, when diving away from classes (vacations & such) and to use a little common sense so as not to override my abillities at the time.