Basic scuba vs advanced vs rescue vs etc.

[unclewas]

Its been a while since I was certifed,,,32 years aprox. Back then A.C.U.C. and Naui were the most popular certifying agencies with the good old YMCA in the back of the pack.

The basic course I took was 40 hours spread over 8 weeks with about an hour and one half class and another hour and one half pool.

Aquatically you needed to swim 400 meters and demonstrate the ability to tow an injured diver another 50 meters. There were doff and don exercises. Black out masks and a few other things. In addition of course to the gas laws, principles U.S. navy dive tables and repetitive scheduals. And of course the open water check out dives.

Nowadays I see and/or hear of sport dive,,,open water diver, advanced diver, rescue diver and I'd just like to know what is being taught in these enhenced courses that is not being offered in the basic scuba program. And if these things are not being offered at the basic level why not given that any diver underwater maybe faced with the need to call upon these skills to either bale themselves or their buddy out of a jam.

awonderingwas

 

[Blackwood]

Open Water Diver is basically what you just described.

Advanced Open Water is a way for the agencies to get more money out of you for something you really can only learn by doing. It also "allows" you to go deeper than 60 feet. Some dive operators won't take non-AOW divers to certain sites.

Rescue Diver teaches about things like how to administer Oxygen to a diver, how to handle an unconscious diver, etc..

 

[Rick Inman]

Aquatically you needed to swim 400 meters and demonstrate the ability to tow an injured diver another 50 meters.

Considering the ratio of divers to injuries back in 1973, that's a good thing.

I was certified in '71.

 

[unclewas]

Thanks Blackwood,,, so theoretically what could be the minmum number of dives an individual would need to do to obtain an "advanced open water" diver certification and therefore be allowed to venture below the 60 foot mark by some of these dive operations.

aloadedquestionwas

 

[AndyNZ]

Thanks Blackwood,,, so theoretically what could be the minmum number of dives an individual would need to do to obtain an "advanced open water" diver certification

Well, with PADI you can do your 4 O/W dives and then straight into your 5 AO/W dives.... so 9.

A lot of charters here are now asking for logbooks as opposed to certification cards as a means to determining dive site choise, depth limits etc. Makes much more sense.

 

[Blackwood]

Thanks Blackwood,,, so theoretically what could be the minmum number of dives an individual would need to do to obtain an "advanced open water" diver certification and therefore be allowed to venture below the 60 foot mark by some of these dive operations.

aloadedquestionwas

The 60' thing is really just something they tell you. "Open Water Divers shouldn't go below sixty feet without supervision." I'm not sure how many people actually adhere to that.


The dive sites that require AOW usually want to see a C-Card, and it's often for reasons other than depth (strong currents is a common reasons cited for the outsides of the California Channel Islands). It is unfortunate because, as was mentioned, someone can theoretically obtain a PADI AOW card with as few as 9 dives and be allowed on a boat trip whereas someone who has been diving for 30+ years (hint hint) and likely has far more relevant experience may be turned away.

Some people may truly benefit from AOW, but I see it more as a money making scheme (at least the way it is now; word on the street is that AOW used to be a lot more meaningful). I learned more about diving/kicks/gear config/buoyancy/trim/etc. in my IANTD Nitrox class than my PADI AOW.


Just my opinions, though. I'm sure many people will come and refute what I've said.

 

[AndyNZ]

Some people may truly benefit from AOW, but I see it more as a money making scheme (at least the way it is now; word on the street is that AOW used to be a lot more meaningful). I learned more about diving/kicks/gear config/buoyancy/trim/etc. in my IANTD Nitrox class than my PADI AOW.

Like everything, it depends on the instructor. I've worked with some very good instructors who, for example, talk about proper gas management for the AO/W deep dive. The same instructors tend to see the AO/W as a way of introducing divers to aspects of diving that they wouldn't normally come across.

Unfortunately, I've also worked with some instructors who view AO/W as a means to get free trips for themselves with minimal effort. They have a tendandcy to say things like "Right, this is a naturalist dive so go and find something and later I'll see if I can tell you what it was". These instructors tend to choose what adventure dives the students will do, as opposed to finding out what the student wants to do or might like to try.

If only the world weren't like that

 

[Wildcard]

Back to your original question, these are not enhanced class they are PADIs way of getting people under water as fast as possable and hoping they love it and come back for more. From Bubble maker at age 8, wait, thay can do SAS at 5 Y/O to DSD aka a resort dive with a DM at your side at all times and a 40 foot depth limit to AOW and rescue which from my understanding is closer to what divers of old did to start out. Is it a bad thing? Divers numbers are way up and deaths way down. Hard to argue with that. AOW? Well, I wouldn't call it advanced, just more. It's a good thing. The more insecure the new diver is, the faster thay should take AOW just to have more supervised dives, IMHO.
Dive today! So says PADI.

 

[TSandM]

And if these things are not being offered at the basic level why not given that any diver underwater maybe faced with the need to call upon these skills to either bale [sic] themselves or their buddy out of a jam.

I haven't taken rescue yet, but I watched the pool portion of a rescue class (which was given in my pool, so it was convenient . . . ) I have taken AOW. And it's my opinion that almost everything is TOUCHED UPON in OW, but not necessarily in full or in practice.

In my OW, I did some basic navigation (required) but not as complex as my nav dive for AOW (or the subsequent dives toward the nav specialty). I did tired diver tows, in the pool and in the ocean, although I didn't practice different ones in open water. I did NOT learn how to approach a panicked diver, or how to get someone out of the water, and that's definitely in Rescue. I learned about narcosis and air consumption and pressure changes pertinent to deeper diving (and didn't learn anything new doing the deep dive of the AOW class).

So I think OW introduces most of the ideas of the other classes, but sometimes superficially, and if most OW grads are like I was (pretty shaky) it undoubtedly doesn't hurt to go back and revisit these things. Our OW, which was a pretty good one for nowadays, from what I gather, was nine hours of class, nine hours of pool, and four open water dives, which is far short of the 40 hours you describe in l973. You probably went over these things more times than we did, and may not have needed any further training.

 

[vkalia]

I learned about narcosis and air consumption and pressure changes pertinent to deeper diving (and didn't learn anything new doing the deep dive of the AOW class).

Really? I'm surprised (as I am the more I read this forum and hear about the standards of instruction for OW or AOW from LDSes....).

A few things that, IMO, should be done in the AOW course:
- gas planning (SAC and how to apply it)
- more information on nitrogen buildup and decompression, including some intro to silent bubbles, a more thorough understanding of what happens in your body vis a vis different tissues and at different depths, et.
- various kicking and propulsion techniques
- problem solving capabilities
- detailed dive planning and execution
- more detailed info on problem solving

All of this should (IMO) be linked to actual diving behavior, as opposed to classroom theory. The result is a significantly more "polished" diver.

Vandit