Based on What???

[scubadada]

Would hunters ever voluntarily limit their take if not required to do so?

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Well, I for one never took more than I could eat that day and maybe the next. Once I got two or three hogs I would quit. There were some divers like me. I never went with the "let's clean out the reef" crowd, although I knew a good many of them. Then again, I was the only fisherman I knew that would stop catching mahi at 2 per person, to the sometimes ire of my friends, but they went along. I loved and still love fresh fish, but I just never had the urge to clean out everything I could see in the ocean.

So, yes, hunters can exercise self-restraint, but some don't. Of course, I was not making a living off of it, either, where the pressure is different. That is why there are now bag limits.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Well, I for one never took more than I could eat that day and maybe the next. Once I got two or three hogs I would quit. There were some divers like me. I never went with the "let's clean out the reef" crowd, although I knew a good many of them. Then again, I was the only fisherman I knew that would stop catching mahi at 2 per person, to the sometimes ire of my friends, but they went along. I loved and still love fresh fish, but I just never had the urge to clean out everything I could see in the ocean.

So, yes, hunters can exercise self-restraint, but some don't. Of course, I was not making a living off of it, either, where the pressure is different. That is why there are now bag limits.

Recreational bag limits are imposed because of commercial fisherman?

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

I don't believe my comment "blamed" commercial fishermen and it was not intended to. I certainly mentioned the "clean out the reef" sport crowd as well. But, as you noted with kingfish, commercial pressure on a species can result in over-harvest. For the kingfish, the main people who suffered were sport fishermen in the keys, as the commercial fleet farther north caught almost all of the quota before the kings had reached south Florida on the winter migration.

Seeing hogfish increasingly on restaurant menus indicates to me that commercial spearing is on the rise (maybe I'm wrong). I'm not taking potshots at commercial spearfishermen, who have a very tough way to make a living, but the simple truth is that they have a direct incentive to maximize their take because it is their livelihood. Still, I have more understanding for that than for sport divers who take as many hogs as they can find.

Bottom line as for "pressure" on the resource, it does not matter where it comes from. If over-harvest reduces the resource, everyone must pay the price for restoration, commercial and sport alike.

I am just glad to see there are management efforts, however imperfect they might seem.

 

[Johnoly]

Would hunters ever voluntarily limit their take if not required to do so?

Absolutely and positively it is being practiced every day. I swim pass hundreds of perfectly legal and allowable fish that I can shoot. I could easily over stuff a cooler. But you know what?, as us spearos become more deadly accurate with our guns and able hit just about any fish in range, something strange starts to happen. WE GET PICKY !!

That's right, we don't shoot trigger fish, margates, kingfish, mangroves and on and on. Sometimes we don't shoot because we don't have a taste for that fish today (picky) or maybe we already have 1 or 2 of those fillets in the freezer vacuum packed. Or maybe we just don't feel like cleaning that trigger fish when we get back to the dock. SO WE NEVER PULL THE TRIGGER,,,,even though it's perfectly legal and maybe the fish even swam right to the tip of my gun.

Last week, I had a 14 inch legal hog swim right next to me for a solid 5 minutes. Never pulled the trigger. I didn't feel like cleaning it and just had grilled hog a few days before.

I'd guess 90% of the spearos on the water regularly are the same way. Feel free to subsitute the word picky for lazy.

 

[100days-a-year]

I know that on boats I've crewed on or captained that on commercial vessels taking barely legal fish gets you harassment,beating down the same spot over and over the same.I know the boats and divers responsible for the majority of the S Atlantic hogfish.The reason it takes a full year to reach the commercial quota is that by diversifying our catch and including species like lionfish and some less fished(underutilized in NMFS speak)species we are able to fish mostly year round.We have intercepts from FWC and SCDNR researchers almost every trip who weigh,measure and take otoliths,take our info such as depth,area and effort.

The GA,SC and NC hogs are in better shape due to better environment,farther distances to travel,deeper depths to dive and significantly less population.I see just as many today as when I did my first dives here and our catch statistics bear out a healthy fishery.S Florida's hog population is well documented.Sadly they live in the perfect storm of warmer and less nutrient rich waters,are much easier to access and to a far greater horde of humans.
The commercial take in S.Florida is negligible as documented by trip tickets,maybe a couple to 10% of what the thousands of recreational divers take in an average year.But everyone is going to have to take a hit for a while to insure a sustainable fishery.

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

100days -- Thanks for that insight into other areas, it was very interesting to me. Yes, perhaps my concern is skewed because of where I live, and I am glad that the fish are in better shape up north. So, I can see why local (to S. Fla.) measures might be needed, but not everywhere. It does seem like NMFS is trying to get as much data as they can from commercial boats, but you are right in that they just cannot fully measure the recreational take.

Johnoly, it seems we are kindred spirits on this one. Back when I speared (before I picked up a camera) I got picky because it was only hawaiian sling and freediving, so I had to be absolutely sure of each shot, and because I wanted only a few fish I would pass on the smaller ones. And you are right a lot of spearos are like that, even with the new guns and scuba.

 

[Mark4for5]

The problem as I see it is that with the combination of Red Snapper and Grouper closures (with their suspect reasoning) it follows that Hogs would see more pressure. There is a growing trend of anglers targeting Hogs where they never did before, loading up with as much as 50 dozen shrimp in the hopes that a 1 in 5 ratio fills the cooler.

A closure, by it's very nature, is a failure of fisheries management.

Speaking of failures... when I see 4 300+ pound Goliath's sharing a 50'X20' sunken barge, and I imagine how many nice fish reside in their bellies, I think of a closure that is WAY past it's time.