Banned from diving for a locked out backup computer?

[in_cavediver]

While it sounds good, and goes along with several minimalist philosophies, for many tasks, the "best" computer is not a brain, the best computer is a computer.

Doing multiple simultaneous partial pressure and tissue saturation calculations is one of these cases. While anybody who chooses to can dive with or without a computer, saying you get "better bottom time" using your brain and a bottom timer is just saying that you're willing to stay down longer than the computer manufacturer believes is safe for most people.


Terry

I would put it a bit different than you. I changed computers when diving to one that would allow me to plan whatever dive I wanted to without complaining. If you plan your dive, then your computer/bottom timer is nother more than a means to keep track of time and depth for your plan. The original point was that the diver in question would not limit himself to the 'approved' profiles a dive computer uses. He could plan any profile, including deco profiles, without the computers approval.

Most recreational dive computers have a great emphasis on NDL time or OTL time remaining. My old react took two button pushes to get the bottom time and max depth values. Real pain in the butt. My VR3 shows me time and depth. I can with two button presses see the dive profile and I can then decide how I want to ascend and end the dive. In many cases, its a lot more conservitve than the react wanted. (sometimes carry both for fun).

 

[Web Monkey]

I can't speak for other computers, but my SmartCom has no problem with decompression diving. Although they don't recommend it for this purpose, as long as you make the required stops to decompress before surfacing, it's still happy.

The only time it locks up is when you end up on the surface without making the deco stops.

I can't speak for other computers, but if my SmartCom locks up, it means I should be calling DAN, not switching to another computer to go diving again.

Terry

I would put it a bit different than you. I changed computers when diving to one that would allow me to plan whatever dive I wanted to without complaining. If you plan your dive, then your computer/bottom timer is nother more than a means to keep track of time and depth for your plan. The original point was that the diver in question would not limit himself to the 'approved' profiles a dive computer uses. He could plan any profile, including deco profiles, without the computers approval.

Most recreational dive computers have a great emphasis on NDL time or OTL time remaining. My old react took two button pushes to get the bottom time and max depth values. Real pain in the butt. My VR3 shows me time and depth. I can with two button presses see the dive profile and I can then decide how I want to ascend and end the dive. In many cases, its a lot more conservitve than the react wanted. (sometimes carry both for fun).

 

[pasley]

I should point out that the SUUNTO (and most others) Computer does NOT lock up because you went into NDL (as has been inplied in a few post).

The computer locks you out becasue you did NOT do the decompression stops at the depth/time required.

 

[racerbruce]

First of all why are you diving on two seperate computers? If you're looking for a measure of safety,it would only make sense to me to use a redundent modelto the one you choose as your primary.Having a different computer with a different algorythem would seem to me to be very ineffective and contradictory, due to the fact that you will not get comperable information, I would think it rather mitigates the very the primary fuction of the dive computer, giving you limits as to nitrogen saturation. If you feel the need to dive with two different computers, then, you willalways be ignoring one or the other,so why bother with 2: if you want to dive more conservatiely use the more conservative, if you want to go more liberal, use the liberal of the two. Fyi:if your using two computers on tightly regulated boats,then I suggest you keep the information on one or the other to yourself, and just dive the standards of the single primary.
I am in the market for a backup computer. Right now I have a more liberal Aeris Atmos AI and I am considering a Suunto as a backup/replacement primary for the Aeris. That said, if I were to use the Aeris as my primary, I could theoretically run into a situation where I do everything right by my Aeris and be locked out by the Suunto. Given that scenario, I have read about dive operations that will put you in a mandatory 24 hour sit out from diving if you lock out your computer.

My questions are:

How prevalent is the lock out rule on dive operations?

and

Does it apply to backup computers? Meaning, if my primary is fine and my backup is locked out, do I still get to dive?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

 

[racerbruce]

I disagree. Read the DAN reports on diving accidents. Fit, non-slobs get hit and can have serious issues as well. IMNSHO, your primary computer is your dive plan and your brain. Your backup is your dive computer. There is NO need to have a backup dive computer - period. I'm interested in having anyone show me where there is a valid reason to have 2 dive computers. Only a dive concession would lead you to believe such nonsense.

Jim

I concur, having two computers is like having two wives: it might seem like a good idea at the time, but after a while you will learn the man cannotserve two masters.

 

[rigdiver]

Hello, I am fairly new to the board and to diving and just ran across this concept I wanted to run by you.

I am in the market for a backup computer. Right now I have a more liberal Aeris Atmos AI and I am considering a Suunto as a backup/replacement primary for the Aeris. That said, if I were to use the Aeris as my primary, I could theoretically run into a situation where I do everything right by my Aeris and be locked out by the Suunto. Given that scenario, I have read about dive operations that will put you in a mandatory 24 hour sit out from diving if you lock out your computer.

My questions are:

How prevalent is the lock out rule on dive operations?

and

Does it apply to backup computers? Meaning, if my primary is fine and my backup is locked out, do I still get to dive?

Thanks in advance.

Jarrett;
I can speak from experience on this. The Seasearcher II out of Freeport, TX does have a no-diving rule if your computer locks you out. We say in the briefing before the boat leaves the dock "if you are waiting on your computer to let you back in the water, WE ARE waiting on your computer to let you in the water.
Now for some dumb tricks by good divers. Set the DC on it's absolute most conservative rating, ignore it, have tons of deco, ignore that and guess what. LOCK OUT. Or, take an altitude class and forget to set the DC back to sea level. Locked out again. I tell divers to be sure they understand their computer before we leave the dock.
Now for backup computers. I would not dream of diving without TWO computers. I know it's a cost/affordability issue with some. If, on the SSII, you've dove with 2 and one locks you out, WE STILL let you dive.
Stay wet;
Bill Childers Sr/lead DM SSII

 

[chrisch]

The primary reason I can see for a recreational diver to have two dive computers is when diving a liveaboard. A computer failure would leave you wondering about residual nitrogen and reliant on tables for the rest of the time aboard. In this case two identical models would be my 1st choice with the second one in a jacket pocket or hidden away somewhere.

Whatever the algorithm it is not a good idea to lock out the computer. This implies a serious missed stop or stops. Locking out a Suunto suggests running a profile that is going to give error readings on another computer at the least.

Some technical divers now use two timing devices/computers. This is wise if doing long deco dives where loss of deco data might be life threatening. For a recreational profile two computers is a little over the top IMO, I have never seen this in 20 years diving.

The sit-out rule is a US thing I presume? I cannot imagine a skipper in Europe telling you not to dive because of a computer lock out. That said its a dumb thing to do.

On multiple dives Suunto are no more conservative than other algorithms and it is possible to get bent inside the no stop limits of the Suunto.

There is a lot of rather uninformed and/or misleading opinion on this thread.

Chris

 

[Azza]

I should point out that the SUUNTO (and most others) Computer does NOT lock up because you went into NDL (as has been inplied in a few post).

The computer locks you out becasue you did NOT do the decompression stops at the depth/time required.

I havn't read the whole thread but above is your answer.
If you choose to dive with a computer, then do the stops.
Whats the whole point of having two computers if you are not going to follow the most conservative one?
Whats the point of having a computer if you are not going to follow the stops it gives you?
Isn't the whole point of using a computer-that it does your thinking for you? Then listen to it.

 

[diverbrian]

I can give an example. Due to the algorithm differences, if I am doing my deep stops on the VR3, I significantly add to the shallow stops on my VyTec. Each followed on its own would "let" me surface about the same time. But if I don't violate the VR3, I am doing four minutes of deep stops that the Suunto is penalizing me for. If I follow the VyTec, I blow off the deep stops that the VR3 calls for. So, one is more conversative than the other depending on when one looks at it during the dive.

As well, the VR3 is typically quicker to "put" one into deco but quicker to "let" the diver out of it than the VyTec. I know this by diving both side by side. Once into deco, the VyTec seems to call for a lot of decompression time. The VR3 has almost no shallow deco time.

So again, in a case like this, which is the more conservative computer, hmmmm?

 

[chrisch]

So again, in a case like this, which is the more conservative computer, hmmmm?

Read the original post. This person is nowhere near ready for a VR3 or deep stops or stops at all for that matter.

The VR3 is programmable and is supposedly able to move to VPM next year. VPM, RGBM or straight Buhlmann - it matters nothing when you are on dive #20 and doing shallow no stop diving....

Chris